CAVO Ep. 87: Unbounded Connections: Experience Virtual Coworking

Did you know there is science behind increased productivity and virtual co-working? Listen as Taylor Jacobson, Founder and CEO of Focusmate, chats with Melody Rawlings, Director of CAVO, about the importance of factors such as pre-commitment, implementation intensions, social pressure, and accountability.

Transcript

SPEAKER_01: 0:01

Welcome to National Universities Center for the Advancement of Virtual Organizations podcast, Increasing Productivity Through Virtual Co-Working. I'm Melody Roughlings, Director of Cavo, and today I'm joined by Taylor Jacobson, founder and CEO of FocusMate, a virtual co-working site for getting anything done. So today we'll be discussing productivity when working remotely. So welcome, Taylor, and thanks so much for taking the time to come and chat.

SPEAKER_00: 0:31

Thanks for having me. Great to be here.

SPEAKER_01: 0:33

Absolutely. So before we jump into our discussion, uh would you get us started by telling us about yourself, your background, and the inspiration for founding FocusMate?

SPEAKER_00: 0:43

Absolutely. Well, um I am checking in here from Mexico City. So hi everyone. And you know, like many good stories, um my inspiration for FocusMate does start with you know some not so happy um parts of my life. Um the first time I was working remotely was over 10 years ago. Um and uh my my my company moved office locations and my commute got very long. And so I I started begging my boss basically to let me work from home. And that seemed like a great idea at the time. Um she was a bit resistant, but eventually she she caved and she let me. And so I thought that would be great. And instead, what happened next was was really my productivity fell apart. And within a few months I was having performance conversations, and then and then I got fired from that job. I just really struggled to um to work on the right things. You know, I would get my laptop out in the morning and I would seemingly be on there for eight hours a day, but something about working in isolation, sitting on my couch, not having other people around. Um you know, I I didn't really know what it was at the time, but I just couldn't I couldn't make good choices um and you know, about about what to be working on. And you know, we'll talk about procrastination today, I'm sure, um, a topic that I I know many of us are very familiar with, but you know, for me at that time my flavor of procrastination was like I I would be doing things, but I'd just be doing the wrong things. And um and I just couldn't I couldn't help myself. Um and that really, you know, getting fired, that that started me, you know, first into a place of shame and depression, and eventually into, you know, I need to figure something out, I need to change something, you know, internally, externally, whatever. And and I started on this journey of you know, personal growth and learning about um productivity, um just to kind of pull myself out of that deep hole. And so uh eventually I I got kind of so excited, let's say, about everything that I was learning that I decided I wanted to make that my career. And I I became a coach and started doing workshops and this sort of thing. And after doing that for several years, I I basically stumbled onto this idea, uh, this kind of fantasy that I had always had of being supported in a way that I thought was kind of crazy. But uh, I was talking to a client one day who himself was procrastinating a lot, really struggling, and really high performer, entrepreneur, brilliant, brilliant guy. And, you know, it something about his situation just activated in me this like, you know, I'm gonna tell him this crazy idea that I have that maybe can help him, but maybe it can help me too. And so I pitched him on the idea of, hey, let's just get on a video call together and we're not gonna talk, we're just gonna share with each other what we're gonna work on on this video call, and then we're gonna sit there in silence while we get our work done. And he was working on an investor presentation and I was working on a blog post. And, you know, suddenly these two chronic procrastinators were just transformed into extremely focused people for two hours, you know, zero distractions. It was really like magic. And both of us were uh honestly dumbfounded at how effective it was, and and that was that was kind of the birth of this idea of what we call virtual co-working that has grown into a company now and and something that has certainly changed my life and has also changed the lives of of countless others that are in our community.

SPEAKER_01: 4:56

Wow, what a great story. You know, when you were first talking about um the challenges that you met when when you first started working uh remotely, I think a lot of people can relate to that. And it's just uh very powerful how you um did the co-working with with the uh friend that you mentioned and and what that led to. So so what a what a great story. You know, Taylor, I know there's a large body of research on productivity in the workplace just in general, and and I know there's an emerging body on productivity and remote work. And when we think of virtual coworking, you know, some may not make an automatic connection to productivity, but rather more just about the social side of working with someone. But on your website, I see terms such as pre-commitment, implementation of tensions, social pressure and accountability. So I'm really looking forward to learning more from you about the science behind productivity and virtual coworking. So uh before we begin our conversation, let's clarify for our listeners what virtual co-working means.

SPEAKER_00: 6:07

Absolutely. So, you know, it in my company, which is called FocusMate, um, we have a particular structure that we've devised that does integrate a ton of science about focus and productivity. Um, and the way that it works is you use our platform to schedule a video call with another member of the platform. And that can be somebody that you know, it can be somebody that we help you to find. Um, but that's a video call that's either 25 minutes, 50 minutes, or 75 minutes. And you meet your partner, and in the first minute of the call, each of you shares what you're gonna work on. So, you know, if you and I are matched up, Melody, I'll say, Hey Melody, you know, good morning. Uh what are you working on today? And you might say, Hey, I just recorded a podcast interview and I have some follow-up items that I need to do. You know, I need to send it, send this to this person, and I need to make some notes on this. And here, you know, I have my postpodcast checklist. And so you're gonna tell me exactly what you're planning to do, and then you ask me, hey Taylor, what are you gonna work on with the time? And you know, maybe it's Friday, and I like to answer emails on Fridays and say, I say, okay, Melody, I'm gonna answer as many emails as I can in this session, in this co-working session. That's all of the talking. You know, we're gonna wish each other good luck. We're gonna maybe mute our microphones and just get to work. And um, you know, may I I may have you on my cell phone um off to the side of my laptop, I may have you in the corner of my screen, but both of us can see each other there while we're doing our work in silence, not talking to each other. Um sometimes, if you want, you can send a little text message in the chat interface to let your partner know, hey, I finished my first task, I'm moving on to my second task. But you're working separately in silence. And and then at the end of the call, there's a bell that goes off and it just calls your attention to come back to check in with your partner to share how it went. Maybe you got distracted, maybe not, whatever it is. You know, it's it's a very um positive, encouraging, safe environment. It's not about you know shaming anybody whether they did it or not, because actually, it you know, as we'll get into the science, it turns out that um the structure itself is insanely powerful at helping you get focused. You don't need anybody yelling at you. It it's actually much more helpful to just share and be honest how it went. And and generally speaking, that's you know the vast majority of people saying, wow, I was completely focused that you know, whole time or almost that whole time, made great progress. Um, and then you know, thanks so much for working with me. Great to great to meet you on focus mate. If you like your partner, you can save your partner as a favorite partner and it makes it easier to work together in the future. You can also tell us your preferences for what kind of partners you want to work with, and you know, we'll find people that that match those preferences. Um, but in a nutshell, it's a very you know simple structure for uh for a video call where you're getting stuff done.

SPEAKER_01: 9:24

I love that. Um, and as someone who works remotely, uh I can certainly um see the value in just that that whole scenario that you just described. So um thank you for for that and for clarifying what virtual co-working means. So, based on your knowledge and expertise, um, and you've already brought this up. So um I want to ask about do you think people tend to procrastinate more when they work remotely?

SPEAKER_00: 9:57

Um I would say unequivocally, yes. Um, you know, and I am a huge advocate of working remotely. Um you know, it's had tremendous benefits for my life, but it also has tremendous challenges. And you know, we are social animals, we're we're we're mammals, we are tribal animals. Um, you know, our evolution has led us to survive in a tribal and a group setting around other people. So the way that we're wired, we respond differently when we're around other people. And um, you know, being being in your house on your own, um those kind of um behavioral triggers are absent. Um, so you know, to kind of look at the opposite of that, because we're animals that um really can't survive on our own. You know, there's some animals that that can be more independent, but human beings are dominant species because our of our ability to collaborate and communicate and to work together. Um, you know, hunting is a good example of that. You can kind of imagine us hunting bigger, more dangerous prey successfully because of other people. Um and maybe you know, imagine like you have a child, um, well, somebody else is gonna have to take care of that child while you go and hunt and so on and so forth. We're we're social animals. And as a result of that, we absolutely perform differently when other people are around. And if we're too isolated, it's not only you know bad for our health, but it's also bad for our um sort of executive function. So, yeah, unequivocally, we are um more prone to procrastination when we're on our own, when we're working remotely.

SPEAKER_01: 11:54

Yeah, I kind of thought you would say that. So, what are you think are the biggest misconceptions about people um what people have about procrastination?

SPEAKER_00: 12:05

Oh, yikes. Um well, yeah, this is sort of this is a good segue from the kind of tribal animal thing. Um, one huge misconception is people think procrastination is a mental problem. And of course, you know, the mind is connected to the body, but um yeah, there's kind of this narrative in society that um categorically, like all kind of mental health issues, and and let's put procrastination as kind of a flavor of that, are are mental problems. Um but actually focus is something that happens when we feel safe, and when we don't feel safe, the body goes into a state of fight or flight, which is something people maybe have heard of, in order to try to survive. And um blood flow leaves the brain, it goes into the spinal column and the extremities, and we can be very active because we're you know, we're preparing to either run or fight. Um but um we are not focused, right? So there's less blood flow to the brain to be creative, to be collaborative, communicative. And you know, I think the the surprising thing for people is to realize that even though there's no lions and tigers chasing us, there's no clear and present danger. The way that our society functions now, there are constant triggers that to our body it thinks are signals of danger. So for example, an ambulance that's going by, you know, outside your house, you know, that siren is designed to actually activate a state of fight or flight. And for you know, there it could be um pings from your cell phone, it could be emails from a boss that stresses you out, you know, because of a workplace culture that's that's a bit um, you know, there's there's a lot of kind of an old school workplace culture that's oriented towards fear as a way to motivate people and and get them to be productive. So there are just many, many, many triggers in modern society that aren't, if you think about it, they're not dangerous, but the body doesn't know that. And so the body switches into this sort of activated, stressed out state. And if we're stressed out, we're in fight or flight, we're not gonna be able to focus. So that's that's one huge misconception is people think procrastination is a mental problem. It's often really just a symptom of chronic stress. And and so many people are chronically stressed that it's become normalized that we don't actually realize it. We just think, oh, this is just how I am, this is how the world is, this is how human beings are, but it's not. Um and I think that leads into um you know another big misconception is people think that procrastination means there's something wrong with them, you know. Um but actually reacting that way, reacting to a siren or reacting to, you know, it it could be um, you know, uh having a romantic partner that is volatile, right? Um anything in your environment that uh causes your body to go into that state of stress, um it's it's actually a healthy and adaptive response. You know, your body is doing what it's supposed to do to protect you. It's more of actually an issue in your environment. Um, or it could be in your habits too, that you're you know, we're just not doing enough to bring ourselves into a state of calm and safety on a regular basis. Um and yeah, maybe you know, last huge one is because uh these states of stress are so normalized, we you know, we we just start to believe that I'm a procrastinator, meaning I'm somebody who is like this and it can't change. It's it's impossible to you know to not be like this. Um and I would say not only is it possible to change, but actually it can it can be quite easy. And you know, I I alluded to my own experience of spending years having a severe procrastination problem and then and just finding something, um, in this case virtual coworking, and we can talk about like you know how this integrates different things that different structures that help the body to come into a state of focus, but it can actually be incredibly easy to go from thinking one second I'm a procrastinator to to being somebody who consistently and easily follows through on you know whatever you you want to follow through on.

SPEAKER_01: 17:08

Very interesting. Yeah. So um while you're talking and mentioning these different things, I'm thinking of things that cause me to procrastinate, like the new puppy you and I talked about when we first started. So uh it doesn't always have to, of course, be something that we think of as negative. It can be something that we enjoy doing that we don't want to stop doing, right? To um to get our work done.

SPEAKER_00: 17:31

Absolutely.

SPEAKER_01: 17:32

So let's talk then, let's shift a little bit and talk about the science um of productivity. And our people who work remote uh who work remotely, do the people, those people find it more challenging to be productive.

SPEAKER_00: 17:47

Yeah, so you know, there's so much science here, but I think the the most important thing that I want people to take away is is a little bit of basic understanding of the nervous system. Um we talked about how in a state of stress um the the blood flow shifts to different parts of the body, and we can't focus. The body is not trying to focus, it's trying to survive. Um whereas when we feel safe, the blood flow shifts into the brain, the throat, the face, and we're able to be more more focused, more creative, um, etc. So um, you know, one uh one of the reasons that virtual coworking is effective is that um we're introducing another human, another safe human being. And one of the most powerful signals to the body of safety is having other safe people around. So you think about in a you know um 10,000 years ago plus, if you found yourself isolated, you weren't gonna survive, right? Like we were talking about human beings need each other to survive. So for the body, and and this isn't like you know, I'm an extrovert versus I'm an introvert. This is a more universal people need to be around other people. I'm an introvert, but I still even if I'm not talking to another person, sometimes there's having somebody else in the room or even a puppy in the room, ironically, um, you can co-regulate your nervous system and come into a state of safety with somebody else there. And so it may not feel like fear. You may we may not feel like I'm in danger right now because it's it's a it's kind of a low grade type of stress that we experience, and it also may be so familiar that we don't even notice. We may think, oh, I feel safe, I feel normal, I feel fine. But if we think about the impact that it has when you, you know, when you go meet your best friend for coffee and you see them and your whole body shifts and you hug them, and something very palpable changes, you know, we become like suddenly happier, and we it's that feeling that is a physical state change. And so part of what's happening when we work remotely is the you know, the body can be in this kind of just very low grade state of distress, of feeling isolated. And with virtual coworking, it's this very predictable, structured, positive interaction with another human being that um is gonna kind of trip your body into this state of safety almost immediately. It can happen in just a few seconds. Um so yeah, that's that's you know one of the more important things. And you know, virtual coworking isn't the only way to um to help your nervous system, to help your body, you know, feel safe. We can talk more about that. Um yeah, that's that's probably the big one. Um, you know, and the the experience of ritual, of predictability, right? So on a on a virtual coworking session with FocusMate, um, you know exactly what's gonna happen, right? So this is another signal of safety. It's the it's why human beings like routines and rituals. It's because there's a familiarity to it, and inside of that we come into a feeling of safety and and you know, more meaning, more positive experiences can be created. Um, you alluded to a couple of other um studied phenomenon um that we can talk about. Um one is pre-commitment. Um, so pre-commitment is basically, you know, if I ask you at 6 a.m., you're sleeping in your bed and I poke you and I say, hey, do you want to go for a run? You're gonna absolutely say heck no, or you're probably just gonna grunt and you know try to roll over and get away from me. Um but if I ask you a couple days before if you want to go for a run at you know at 6 a.m., um you're gonna process that possibility from a different part of you that's not exhausted and grumpy, from a part of you that asks yourself, hey, am I interested in running more? Am I interested in getting more fit? Um, is that a good time of day for me? Does that feel good? And you might take into account the possibility that you'll be tired, but you're gonna make a decision from kind of a uh uh a higher part of you, let's say, that just takes into account all the factors more effectively. And so that's what that's another thing that's happening with uh with virtual coworking, is you're able to commit to having a virtual coworking session um beforehand. And and this can be even 10 minutes beforehand is actually a huge psychological shift because for a procrastinator, for somebody that's struggling to get something done, if you're kind of in that moment of truth of like, am I gonna do this thing or not do this thing, it can bring up anxiety. But if it's like my 10 minutes away future self, it's like, yeah, I I actually do want to get that thing done. And all you have to do is commit to the co-working session, that is a much less stressful for that kind of um anxious part of you. It's an easier commitment to make, right? So we we tend to make a better decision about what is good for us a little bit ahead of time. And it could also be two days ahead of time or two weeks ahead of time. Um but the point is when we pre-commit, we tend to make better decisions and we tend to follow through on them because now we have a commitment. Um and yeah, the last one you mentioned is implementation intentions. And this is just a very simple phenomenon where if you know exactly how you are going to do something, you're much more likely to do it. Right. So if I if I have a goal to eat healthier, right, maybe I don't know where to buy the food, maybe I don't know how you know how I'm gonna prepare it. Um all of you know all of these uncertainties, these unknowns, introduce friction and they make it much more likely that I'm just I'm I'm not gonna eat healthier. But if you know, if for example, my friend, you know, I have a friend who says, hey, I can help, and I'll go pick up the groceries and I'll you know choose the recipe and um show up at your house at this time, six o'clock on Tuesday, and you know, we're gonna cook together. Suddenly having this plan makes it extremely likely now that I'll follow through. And this might sound kind of silly and simplistic, but just the the plan of I have a virtual co-working session tends to be enough to switch us from that I'm in this state of uncertainty and I don't know how I'm gonna follow through on this thing, and and then I won't, to now I have a plan and I know what I'm gonna do first. I'm gonna book my session, and then I'm gonna show up to my session, and then I'm gonna tell my partner what I'm gonna do, and then you do it. And again, it sounds kind of silly like something that simple, but it's actually insanely powerful at getting us to follow through.

SPEAKER_01: 25:38

Yeah, all of those things you mentioned, I can are are just so relatable. I can relate to those and the feelings that you mentioned that you know brought on by our nervous system, and and so what I'm hearing you say too, really, this all leads to accountability. And so if we have someone that we're co-working with, we make that pre-commitment, um, and then we follow through, and we know and maybe it's some it's kind of like when she mentioned the healthy eating, and if you if you know how to do it before you do it, then it makes it much more likely that you will. And and then it feels so good, it's so satisfying when you do follow through on something and you get it done and you've been productive, and you look back at the day and you go, wow, I really got you know XXXX done today, and I'm so glad that you know, to have that accomplished, and that's such a great feeling.

SPEAKER_00: 26:34

Amen. Yeah, it's actually one of the things that we hear most from people is it's not just the feeling of I got stuff done, but it's actually that you can relax in your free time, you know. It's like you you it's the feeling of I was accomplished, I mean, my I finished my session, I closed my laptop, having that feeling of accomplishment, and now I can actually enjoy myself. Um and and it applies like looking forward too. You can enjoy your your free time, your non-work time more as well because you know that you're reliable to get work done again in the future. And a lot of a lot of the anxiety that procrastinators have is kind of it's it's it's for me at least, it's unconscious. It's kind of this, I have this thing, when am I gonna do it? How am I gonna do it? Am I even gonna do it? Am I gonna put it off forever and ever and ever? And I'm gonna get up to the last second and I'm not gonna have it done, or my colleagues are gonna, you know, think I'm lazy, or I'm gonna not be able to pay my rent this month because I didn't do the thing that I need to do to find clients, like all these things. And when when you relate to yourself as somebody who just knows that you can get stuff done anytime you want, and it's not a problem. Wow, that is like such a good relaxing feeling of yeah, I can chill out right now because I know you know, 9 a.m. tomorrow I'm gonna be crushing it, no problem, you know. Um, so yeah, absolutely. It's super related to that part too.

SPEAKER_01: 28:08

Mm-hmm. Sure makes me uh sleep better at night, too.

SPEAKER_00: 28:12

Absolutely.

SPEAKER_01: 28:13

So what about someone with that who has ADHD? Um, how might that affect procrastination and productivity?

SPEAKER_00: 28:24

Yeah, absolutely. Um well look, there's um there's new research or new understandings of ADHD that that I would say I'm I'm partial to, which is that ADHD is actually a it's like a cluster of different symptoms that are all different manifestations of what we talked about before, which is chronic stress. And it, you know, in the case of ADHD and and and other um conditions as well, it can often be that this is something that came from an early childhood sort of developmental thing where we had a stressful early childhood environment. Um maybe we are more sensitive. And that you know, my experience of people with ADHD is they are absolutely more sensitive people, which can really be a superpower if if you are able to um you know find find ways of working with that sensitivity to sort to resource your body, resource your nervous system. Um so yeah, I would say everything that we've said up till now uh 100% applies to people with ADHD. That um you know somebody somebody like that could be more distracted by a siren or um something in their environment, right? Um because their their body is either A more sensitive or has, you know, maybe what we could categorically call. some early developmental trauma that it's just looking out for you know cues of danger in the environment and that manifests as for different one you know different people we have different clusters of ADHD symptoms but it's just our bodies you know being different um our environments being different and so yeah to me the the answer really comes back to just you know how do we how do we help our nervous system how do we help our body come into a a state of of feeling safe and um you know I would say a solid half or more of the focus mate community have ADHD probably a bunch more have undiagnosed ADHD um and you know universally we hear uh you know stories like I've tried everything I've tried all the medications I've tried all the apps everything and nothing has worked even close to as effectively as virtual coworking.

SPEAKER_01: 30:59

Oh that's so great to know that um because I know I can imagine how frustrating it is even though I've not been diagnosed with uh ADHD but there are times where I really have trouble focusing um and just getting to it and just sitting down and getting it done so on on some level I can I can relate and understand. And so that brings me to my next question and that is this concept of alignment and why what it is and why it's important to our productivity.

SPEAKER_00: 31:31

Yeah you know this is this has been a personal exploration for me over the last few years because um I I I I went through some traumatic experiences kind of all at once and I found myself having PTSD and and a number of other things and you know long story short my energy levels my capacity dropped precipitously you know let's say I was at my my battery my ability to um to get stuff done to just kind of pull myself together and go for it was like five to ten percent of you know maybe my peak potential right so absolutely crushed decimated very little energy and what I started to find was that there would be certain things that I would set out to do that I could still do that my body my intuition felt like a yes to and then others that felt draining and I just and I couldn't do them and and being in that like really broken down state I it was like I didn't have a choice you know a a a previous more energetic and healthy version of me could work on something that was not as aligned right that's the key word that you used earlier is alignment and and just kind of like use all of that energy that I that I had that I maybe didn't appreciate that I had to like force myself to do something. But even that past more energized version of me would be much more likely to procrastinate and kind of hem and ha and just um put it off and put it off and and then this really kind of busted busted up version of me became super super sensitive to the things that became energizing to me or depleting to me. Right. And that this has really become the lens through which I evaluate not just work projects but people, relationships, um, you know, events that I might go to on a on a today's Friday what am I going to do on a Friday night? And the lens and I think a lot of us do this intuitively but I I would really encourage making it conscious is what is my gut saying or what is my intuition saying and and getting out of the sort of mental analysis of you know can I how do I justify doing this or not doing this? My experience of having so little you know internal resource was that I had to make decisions from this more intuitive place of is this energizing? Does do I feel myself leaning into this saying you know that kind of gut yes or not and yet naturally this has huge bearings on on procrastination as well. So this takes nothing away from everything we talked about about the nervous system and and needing to feel safe to be able to focus but a huge other piece to consider is can we really connect to um what the intuition is saying which to me when I say intuition this is not some woo-woo airy fairy concept this is saying actually a human being is more than the mind the mind is just a tool it's a tool that's good for analysis it's a tool that's good for research it's not a tool that is good for decision making you know we the the human organism is made up of trillions and trillions of you know living parts right which um which don't necessarily communicate to us through the mind they communicate to us through what I am calling the intuition um but that doesn't mean it's an abstract thing it just means that it's like sometimes you just know um you know I I um I used to be vegan and vegetarian for a while and my body just wasn't functioning well and I I had a steak recently and and my body was just like euphoric. You know it's like we need whatever this is, we need it. Right? So it's it's that kind of integrated full full body intelligence that I'm calling intuition or the gut or the heart or any of these kind of um phrases that that we use colloquially that in my view are are kind of just integrating all of these different forms of intelligence to say this is in alignment for me this is healthy for me versus this is not yep and I totally I'm 100% believe in intuition uh that doesn't mean it's always spot on or always correct but I do believe it is far more often than it's not and I do believe that that in that that intelligence and I do believe that most of the time we need to listen to our intuition because I do think our body communicates to us and we need we need to listen. Yeah absolutely and like you said you know it's not we don't always get it right sometimes we confuse you know we get confused you know and we do our best but I would say for me being on this journey just committing to like I'm just gonna do my best and you know when you do that when you actually start to really put faith in the intuition as something that is real and powerful and helping you to know what is healthy for you you do get better over time like any skill. Oh absolutely and that segues really well into my next question that is what structures might someone implement to uh make it easier to be productive yeah absolutely so I mean no one here will be surprised that I'm gonna I'm gonna make a strong plug for for virtual coworking and for checking out focus mate um you know for so many reasons focus mate it just it just integrates a lot of powerful um structures into one place that um it's just like flipping a switch for many many people from you know any level of struggle or non-productivity to just like getting locked into a really relaxed and focused and easeful you know productive state so um would definitely encourage people to try focus mate we it's free to join we have a free plan that's free forever so um you know no no risk in trying that um and then you know the the second thing that I that I'll really harp on is um coming back to the nervous system and and the body and how do we how do we help bring the body into a state of safety on a on a consistent basis and a safety in contrast to stress those are the kind of if we look at it as like a spectrum on one end of of danger and and stress on the other end to to safety and focus. And for me the kind of heuristic that really helps is to think of myself like almost like a plant. And what I mean by that is I think human beings we are really good at overcomplicating things and being very mental and you know it when you think about what does a plant need to be healthy, it's like it needs sun and it needs water. And maybe it needs to be in a temperature that is good for it. Right. And with those things it's healthy. It's pretty simple. And despite how complicated we like to think that we are we're really not I think the tendency to want to believe that we're complicated is comforting because it can explain why we struggle so much. You know it's like well of course I struggle because I'm I'm just unusually complicated. So if we look if we start to look at ourselves more like a plant we're not a plant but we're only a little bit more complex let's say and we're like a a plant that needs we also need sun and water we need good healthy food which is a huge problem in modern society. A lot of us are not eating real food um it could be hard to to get real food um but eating really well um movement right um and actually this is one that I you know movement has been a journey for me because a lot of kind of modern fitness culture has us doing things that are very aggressive and can even stress out our bodies um I had to really learn to listen to the kind of movement that my body wants it feels good walking turns out to be an amazing really healthy form of movement um connection human you know safe human connection is another really important ingredient um and I would say also a you know a sense of purpose um and the analog to this for like a plant is you know a plant is going to grow towards the sun and it's kind of this intrinsic directionality that a plant has as it's moving through the world quite literally a plant is moving more slowly through the world but it's moving towards the sun generally speaking and so I that's been my experience as well that we do need to you know this comes back to alignment. What is the direction that we are meant to be moving in um you know if we are forcing ourselves to do something that's not right for us that will also affect our nervous system right the only reason we we will ever do something that's not right for us is because we have to and we have to because we're in danger. So if we're forcing ourselves to do stuff that isn't good for us that'll also keep us in a state of stress. So sun you know hydration uh rest we didn't mention good um good nutrition healthy safe connection and and touch um sense of purpose I'd I'd probably add like play to that um but it's a pretty short list and so that's kind of my general heuristic is like think of yourself like a plant but just a little bit more complicated great advice that's just great advice and and when I think of keeping things simple or living simply um it definitely reduces my stress and when I have less stress I am more productive and and I procrastinate less. So really informative um or just great information that you shared uh which was very informative and helpful and are there any closing thoughts you would like to leave us with and uh additionally how can our listeners connect with you yeah great um well I I I'll reprise the theme of um there's nothing wrong with you um yeah I really want people to take away from this that if you are if you have struggled with procrastination and or ADHD or any number of other issues like that there's nothing wrong with you um it's your body is responding to an environment that um maybe it it wasn't built for and that there's there are simple things that we can do to really help that and I don't mean to be reductionist you know there are complex issues but um yeah I really want people to take away there's nothing wrong with you and and I do hope you'll try some of the things we talked about for nervous system regulation and would love to have y'all um join the focusmate community as well um and I would love to connect with you um the best places to find me are LinkedIn and Instagram um so yeah it's TaylorJacobsen on um on LinkedIn and Taylor e Jacobson on on Instagram and if you want to join us at focusmate it's free and that's focusmate.com great thank you Taylor I've learned so much from our conversation and um just really enjoyed chatting with you about productivity and virtual coworking and all of the great things that you've recommended to help us to uh to be productive thanks so much Melody great to chat with you as well thank you so much for joining us in support of the Center for the Advancement of Virtual Organizations at National University.

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