National University Podcast Series
National University Deans, Faculty, and Leadership discuss a wide range of topics with a focus on the higher education community. Tune in to hear from our experts, alumni, students, and faculty. Current programs include: Center for the Advancement of Virtual Organizations (CAVO), Virtual Education Support Center (VESC) and Whole Person Center (WPC), formerly Virtual Center for Health and Wellness (VC4HW).
National University Podcast Series
CAVO Ep. 91: How to Build Engaged and Happy Remote Teams
Cristina Imre, founder of Tech Leadership Lab and CAVO Visiting Virtual Expert, chats with Melody Rawlings, Director of CAVO to share effective strategies for cultivating engagement and happiness in remote teams, drawing from the principles and experiences of Tech Leadership Lab as a result of 15 years of working remotely.
Welcome to the Center for the Advancement of Virtual Organizations podcast, How to Build Engage and Happy Remote Teams. So I'm Melody Rawlings, Director of Cavo, and today I'm joined by Christina Emory, founder of Tech Leadership Labs. And our discussion today is going to focus on methods for keeping remote teams happy and drawing from Christina's 15 years of remote work experience with Tech Leadership Lab. So welcome, Christina, and thanks so much for taking the time to come and chat.
SPEAKER_00:Thank you, Melody. I'm very happy to be here. And just a little bit of correction, Tech Leadership Lab. It's a new structure, but indeed I infuse, let's say, all that uh experience of 15 years of uh building and just problems of uh remote communities and groups and employees around the world. Yeah, that's very true.
SPEAKER_01:Awesome. Thank you for making that correction. Um, as a remote work advocate, I'm so excited to have you here to talk about this today and for all of your expertise that you bring from those 15 years of remote work. So um, but before we jump in, could you just share a little bit about yourself to get us started?
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, sure. I have a curiosity about human nature, first of all. I'm very, very excited about understanding all of those little details and triggers and uh special things that every one of us has. And that started very early on as a kid, I must say, because I realized that we are so interchangeable, we switch our mood so quickly, we are instable sometimes, we are superficial. And this for me, it was a trade that okay, we behave this way, but we have so much potential. And so I started to truly immerse myself in understanding human nature, and this went on for over two decades combined with business, because I do have these two facets: human centricity and also entrepreneurship. And as a serial entrepreneur, I went through multiple ventures myself, but I also have the medical doctor background. I also studied a lot of psychiatric cases, and so I immerse myself in psychiatry, psychology, cognitive sciences, behavioral science, anthropology, and um evolutionary psychology and also holistic um ways of being and treating people, also from health perspective, and included this in a business-like way. Because in my way, I always saw things holistically. We we cannot be happy if uh, let's say our work is okay, but we are sick or we are depressed, or our things at home are not okay, and we don't know how to just uh make them better. And so it was yes, the two plus decades on uh immersing how we can have a fulfilled holistic way of life and do it also in a remote setting.
SPEAKER_01:That's awesome. So, yeah, you can bring a multi-perspective there, which is very valuable because it is a very multi-perspective topic, right? For sure. Let's go ahead and move to the first question I have for you. So, in what ways does Tech Leadership Lab prioritize building a strong remote team culture so important?
SPEAKER_00:Tech Leadership Lab, it's a legacy mission. It started as a community movement on LinkedIn and very fast evolved through the amazing people that started to join Tech Leadership Lab. It became an action-oriented think tank, and now we are actively working on becoming a very, very strong ally entity that will help solving all the 17 SDEGs from the UN because we identified the importance of urgency. But urgency in a way that you don't need to become depressed because people sometimes they don't act when they see there are so many problems in the world, and you can just uh freeze people. They don't act because they think it's too late or they cannot do. I believe that there is a lot of hope in the world. I believe that SDGs can be solvable sooner than we thought before AI and all the new technology we are there there is out there. And so my desire was okay, this is the time when I just need to get more involved. Because if not now, when things are just happening and climate and other aspects cannot wait the weekend, cannot wait our vacationships, cannot wait. We don't know how much time we have. So let's just put things in motion and become an extra entity that will focus on uniting all those TLS around the world that are already doing amazing things, amplify the voices, putting things together, including between parties that are not talking with each other, but they should, and putting the aspects of, hey, we have the solutions. Now we need the agreement, the consensus, and we can have a wonderful future. Not just us, our kids, and the future generations, because this is for me very, very important. And it was the focus on showing what a true global leadership means, where quality prevails, where empathy prevails, where caring about humanity as a whole, it's important because we are in this together, we are connected, we are not separated, and color, ethnicity, gender, age shouldn't matter when it comes to us as a species on this wonderful world that we can do a much better job together, united.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, love the caring approach. And based on your response, I'm hearing a lot of passion in there, and probably that's the whole impetus, all right, or the motivation to start Tech Leadership Lab. Am I hearing that in there as well?
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, and I forgot to answer a little bit your question. So um, when I decided this is something above me, this is a lifelong mission, it's audacious. I know I'm not crazy, just a little bit, because you need to to be as an entrepreneurial self, you need to have this craziness and uh audacious ambition. Otherwise, you wouldn't start anything. So I do have that. But here I said, okay, I will put everything I learned about human nature and business success combined inside the tech leadership lab and build such a structure that it will act as a role model for our other communities that want good for this world. And this is how tech leadership lab was shaped from day one till today.
SPEAKER_01:That's great. You know, in the past, it seems like we've spent a lot of time trying to separate those things that you're talking about. And so now I'm hearing you talk about no, we bring them together and we learn how to consider all of those different the holistic approach, right? Um, and that can lead to better satisfaction, greater satisfaction. Um, if we're teach treating people from a holistic perspective instead of trying to say, no, you can't bring your emotion to work, or you can't bring uh things that you're experiencing that maybe having uh are creating challenges in your life, you can't bring those. Um, so that's kind of what I'm hearing you say, because there's things that happen in our lives, right, that inform our behavior, of course. And and so I think as leaders, we do have to consider uh all of these things. And I know we're gonna talk a little bit more about that, but it's and and you're talking about being crazy busy starting a business. I can so understand that. And and a little bit before we got started, you were sharing that you work every weekend and uh all weekend, and it's hard to set step back and find time just to relax when you're especially when you're passionate about something, and I can hear that passion in you. Um, so how would you recommend approaching that delicate balance uh between flexibility and structure in remote work? Because I know a lot of people really love, and and I am I'll speak for myself as well, love working uh from home because I appreciate that it helps me have a greater work-life balance. Um, but there is that, I think, that that delicate balance because we also you know, there has to be accountability too. So, so how do you recommend approaching that balance?
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, I started a little bit laughing because, you know, as you mentioned that I work through the weekends, you know, that there is an entire movement out there that will now hate me because I am promoting hustle culture and so on. And I want to clarify this firsthand.
SPEAKER_01:Oh, I didn't say you were promoting it.
SPEAKER_00:No, no, but it's a very good point. And thank you for pointing this out because many times I forget that I want to talk about this and always forget it's not just an important aspect, but it is, you know. It's very, very important to see every person as a unique human being and with unique desires and missions. Some people are happy to be okay in their family, in their surrounding, in their community with their neighbors, and that's okay for them. And so they have a different life work balance. I don't like the term at all because it doesn't reflect reality, and especially for entrepreneurs. And when you have the life work balanced-ish way of seeing life, you already detach yourself from your work. It's like, okay, a Friday at 5 p.m., you cannot allow to just uh message your colleague about work because then it could be something very no-no-ish. And I'm coming and saying, no, that's not true. Work for a human and an adult occupies the most important active years when we are in shape, when we can act. It's very crucial to have a working relationship, a friendship, best friend. And we know that also from Gallup studies that having a best friend at your work is very important. But not just that, to see it like work, it's a beautiful place inside your life where you can create cohesion and family-like structures where people you like to work with, they are reachable through weekend. If they want to send me family uh or photos or what they are doing through weekend or in day vacation, I am traveling with them. And every ex-employee of mine or worker knows this about me because I have a huge collection of amazing pictures about them. So why I am doing this right now, I don't do it all the time. And I have a quote that is pretty viral on the internet. I'm known for the Monday quote that uh, you know, that mission-oriented people is basically that's the message. They uh favor vacations and not weekends in a way that when you are mission-driven or you're building a new company or you are creating structures, you as the leader, you are the example, not of a hustle culture, but you need to work more than others because it is your baby or your dream. And if you are immersed for what you want to achieve, then eventually you will have times when you don't have time for weekends. But then again, when you create a structure where you can delegate more and you have trustworthy people, you will start to delegate more. And it is something that you acknowledge and take for yourself. I want to do these things because I'm ambitious about global impact. I I am a good human being and do things around my neighborhood and stuff. But that's that doesn't excite me. It excites me if I know that my impact is around uniting us as a species around the globe. And that is a huge mission. Just think about president, think about leaders who have who are on top of big structures. They cannot think or have the same kind of uh work ethic like the rest of the people or the general public who wants that free time, who wants that kind of thing. So we assumed or we are responsible for our actions and our decisions. And that's why, yes, uh, for a while I don't have weekends, but I know what I'm building here, and it's for the benefit of the humankind. And so this is not an easy mission and means not for everyone.
SPEAKER_01:I love that. But I would also add to that, if it's something that you're passionate about and that you love it, is it really work then? Um, if it I mean it is, I mean you're you're it is work, but I think there's just such a difference when it's something that you really love and enjoy and you want to spend that time versus someone dictating to you that you better work this weekend to get this project finished, or you know, or else there's gonna be consequences, kind of kind of climate, which is very unhealthy. But I think if it's something that you're really enjoying, and because you know, I do this too, I love my job, and I don't mind at all, it's not that I I don't even think about it, I just do it because I enjoy it. And I think that's what I'm hearing you say too, that it's something that you're you know, you obviously are very passionate about, but something that you enjoy. So tell us then if you would share with us, tell us um uh regarding this balance, if leaders are very aware and intentional about you know approaching this delicate balance, what impact can that have on team morale and productivity?
SPEAKER_00:You need to know your people. That's the most important first step you can do, especially in a remote setting, because you don't know what's happening behind the screen. But you, you as a leader have the responsibility to know that. I treat every family member, community member, everyone on a one-on-one basis. And my priority is to understand where they are coming from, what are their priorities, what they want to achieve, and see how their personal mission can be connected with TLS mission. Because it's very important, okay. Uh character is the first thing we are filtering on paper. But after that, I want you to be happy with what you're doing here and see the connection with your personal journey and desire to achieve in life with TLS desire and achieving life. Because people need and want different things. Me as a leader, I need to know those things for you, and then enable that kind of environment that serves your personal interest and your higher interest, legacy interest, the best way. And then eventually, once trust is formed, I don't need to supervise anymore too many things because you just know what you have to do and you do it for yourself as well. And I'm here to enable the best. And that also relates to Maslow's pyramid in remote setting. We need to make sure that our employees have the basics met. And that doesn't need to be just the technical and the computer, but light, sunlight, healthy food, uh, greenery, uh, good diet, some sport, because you don't want your people sick, not because you want the best productivity. They are linked. If you think if you see things holistically, they are linked. You want a happy employee who or a happy colleague or a happy community member who is there to do its best because believes the cause, because it's healthy, because feels in a family, and because just aligns with the the life they want to live.
SPEAKER_01:All of those things you've mentioned do lead to better or higher levels of work satisfaction. And you know, you and I know there's so many studies out there that would support the benefits from for employees who are happy and are satisfied with their job. And it's not just benefits to them, but it's also benefits to the organization if their employees are satisfied. So it really behooves leaders to get to know, as you mentioned, and their their work or their people, and to know them on a one-to-one basis. And they're because everybody's unique. Everybody has a unique personality, everybody has unique skill sets. And so all of those things you mentioned are so important in fostering that satisfaction and happiness at work. And that segues well into the next question. And that is what role does leadership play in fostering engagement and happiness within remote teams?
SPEAKER_00:Huge. You need to be a mother and also to make uh very clear that okay, if this is the way you work, it's for what reason? You have a deadline, you have something to accomplish, it's for the better good. And uh, of course, this stimulates the team to come to join you, but you also show empathy for their life and their situation. And they need to see that you are there for them and you don't expect the same things to do, like what you do, to give that psychological safety for their structure. That's why clarity over communication in a remote setting is so crucial. And when they see you that no matter if you work a lot or not, you have the conviction, what you noticed with me. You have the passion about what you want to do. And that is contagious. I mean, I need to tell you that inside tech leadership lab and especially inside the core team, sometimes we have competition who takes on more things to do. Because we we see that we are here for the right reasons, and it can become like a good positive competition. Okay, we need to solve that. Who wants to take it? And then the ideas start to jump. Because also when you have a situation, you feel safe to tell, you know, now I cannot do that. Now I am sick, now I have uh something external and take over, and you have someone always to rely on, and this is so huge. And only leadership can give the tone to that through showing vulnerability to showing, hey, we are not perfect, we always evolve, let's just be, let's test, let's just see what we can do better. And if we fail, if something doesn't come up as we want, at least we know we were agile and we tried up diff different things with different outcomes, and then we learn and we go on.
SPEAKER_01:And that makes me want to ask you then are there certain behaviors or qualities that are particular of particular value for leaders uh who are within the remote or who work in remote teams?
SPEAKER_00:Yes, yes, and it's the same for also for employees. You need to see if they have the openness to work for a remote organization because if they need a lot of face-to-face interaction, you will get uh depressed employees very, very soon. And you don't want that because that is uh a huge thing to demoralize the entire team. And for that reason, it's always good to hire for leadership, for specific leadership skills. First of all, someone who is a leader in this, they need to be very conscious about their time, that they have huge independence to organize whatever they want and create structures around the work life and also be the model for others, but they won't have much supervision. And if you don't know how to organize your time, then of course you can start to work too much or to lead the to see to don't see the distinction between free time and work time. So I use triggers, I I use buttons, I call them mental buttons also because of my uh coaching background and so on. And uh so when I have to do something and I cannot work, or when I go to vacation, I just once I got out of the house and I closed the door, I'm off. I don't think work anymore. It's through practice, but you do it. So for leaders, you want to have someone who truly understands what it means to have so much freedom and liberty because remote work it gives you that. And if you can work in that structure be before creating a chaos of your life, yeah, that is uh something you need to know beforehand.
SPEAKER_01:Absolutely. We could jump off and chase a rabbit trail on a story I'll share real quickly, um, but we don't have time. But I was uh on a plane back in the fall and sat beside a lady that worked for Cargill, and she was sharing that her one of her children had graduated college and was in their first job, professional job, and it was during the pandemic, and they were working remotely and they felt so disconnected because they weren't having those water cooler chats, they weren't having those face-to-face uh interactions where they can learn that tacit knowledge that can sometimes just you just comes more natural in a f physical setting when you're meeting people face to face and they didn't have work experience, and that so the the whole remote thing was leaving them feeling, as you mentioned, very very isolated, very disconnected, very lonely. And so, yeah, it isn't for everyone for sure. And I think, and that's something I hadn't really thought a lot about was the younger, the younger younger generation who is just beginning their professional career and the need for that in-person interaction. So, but that that makes me uh brings me to the next question. And because you have 15 years of experience in remote team management, uh what are some key lessons that you've learned uh that you could share that may benefit other organizations who who want to improve engagement and satisfaction in their virtual teams?
SPEAKER_00:First of all, we need to make the distinction what type of organization you are. If you were built completely and remotely, so office-like, then you have an issue because uh most of your people are already non-remote ready. You need to consider this that you can create the chaos and destruction for your company. The hybrid model is already a different thing, and the remote structure is different. So, first, when I enter in an organization and I evaluate where they are and what they need to do, I am taking them from where they are. What is the custom, what are the customs people are knowing? If you create huge shifts, you want remote ready leaders. They are the first liners you need to prepare. And sometimes, if you were not used with remote, you will need to bring in new people. But that is a must because otherwise uh you will uh you won't have the good rituals. You want to set up not habits, rituals that are over the habits that will be then the good construction for the culture you want to create. The remote culture is different. You need to over-communicate, you need to allow stupid questions, you need to allow repeating yourself, you need to allow long lines and paragraphs. You would say, ah, in two words, uh the other person understands what I want. No, we are not mind readers in a remote setting. So many errors are happening just because of the communication. If I would solve one thing in when you want to go remote successfully, is the overcommunication aspect and creating a culture when you open up this kind of framework in the briefcase, getting back. What did you understood from what I just said right now? I want to know if my communication was specific, exact, and uh, you know exactly what's the task. Otherwise, they saw so many people working for weeks on nothing. And after two weeks, they discovered, including developers. Oh, I thought this is what you want. Two weeks, that's huge. That can bankrupt companies. And it happens with those who just transition and they don't have remote ready leadership. So that's the first thing: overcommunication and creating the right type of spirituals where you create the psychological safety for people to tell you what's going on because you cannot see them in person. And the screen hides many things. And so you need to have someone, at least a person, who is good enough, a coach, a mentor, someone who can get very, very close to the people one-on-one and know the family circumstances, the personal circumstances, the basic structure circumstances, if they have access to everything for their work environment. Because if they feel safe enough to come to you first when they see a danger or they are in danger or something happened, then you won't have that kind of thing. People just disappear because it's remote and they don't tell you anything, and you just find yourself that you need to replace someone. And uh there was something urgent that happened in that life. So I think with these three steps, you you can uh create a good foundation and um communicate the vision, communicate what is the direction. People in a remote setting need to see, need to be more generalist, not super specific like experts. And this is a trend that I see now with big tech companies, all the layoffs, they have this as a basic, why it happens because it this is another question, but what I want to say it's here have generalists, have people who can fit in multiple jobs, who are who know what is the vision, not just their task, and then you will prevent many, many issues moving along if you have more people who know to jump in when it's needed.
SPEAKER_01:And that makes a lot of sense. Uh makes perfect sense. And another question is kind of a sub-question of this, if I may. We all know the importance of emotional intelligence. And as you have, you know, and you've alluded to this many times throughout um our time together. Um, what are some ways that a leader can show employees or how you practice emotional intelligence within remote employees or remote team members to show the empathy and that caring that you mentioned and that concern? So, what are some ways they can do that remotely? Because uh is and is it more of a challenge remotely than it would be in a physical environment?
SPEAKER_00:It is, it is, because even from my perspective, I am an intuitive empath. I I can be very empathic, and that's not good for my own sanity. And people many times see the opposite. They see the tough Christina, and they see the Christina who is maybe sometimes even bossy, and that just doesn't align with her value and characters and so on. Um, you need to know when to switch roles. That's why the one-on-one communication is so important, where you can show vulnerability about yourself and make things straight again, overcommunicate. Hey, you know, you see me this way, but it doesn't mean I don't care. If you have personal issues or something, I'm always there for you. I switch the hats, you know. But bringing a group together is a different responsibility and a different role than being empathic with someone. Because if you do that in public and you do it too often, you are seen as weak and it might be fine, but not when you're building something huge. And so you need to create again that kind of environment that people will see you also vulnerable in a one-on-one, a very personal, like ish meetings and see that okay, okay, she truly cares. Because sometimes, and I'm a very good actress, I mean, everyone of every one of us is a good actor, and we can be on screen very easily. But that's why you need to just let out take out that kind of um umbrella and say, hey, this is the truth. I truly care about you. Come and reach out anytime without consequences.
SPEAKER_01:Great point. And I think just allowing people to see that, see our human side and to see that you know, we we all have um, I guess, you know, we all have challenges and and not to put up that kind of that, I guess, that screen and uh not letting our authentic selves be seen, I think is what I'm hearing you say. So just be authentic and um and let people see that side of us. So it's been a great, it's been great chatting with you, Christina, and I've really enjoyed learning from our conversation. Um, and so is there anything else that um that any other thoughts that you would like to share with us?
SPEAKER_00:Yes, when you you are focusing on people and the big vision that people can rely on, it's exactly what's happening with tech leadership lab. We are wanting to create the most amazing event summit that is the intersection of climate, AI, and humanity in six weeks, something that other companies with budget might do in one year. And we will do this by conviction, by aligning the right people who care about humanity, who have a long-term vision. So there are some character traits when what you're looking for when you create such structures. And what happened since the beginning of tech leadership up till today, it's absolutely unbelievable. It's exponential. It was a huge growth by any standard. And the fact that people are getting those who align with us, because we also have mistakes. Sometimes we just accept people who are not according to our values, and it's fine. You cannot move fast if you don't do errors. We do many errors and then we correct them, and it's fine. But those who are truly aligned with what we are building here, they they're so involved in this. They they're here to know us, to give their best and their free time and more than their free time, more and more to build something amazing that will impact the entire humanity. And you can do that from nothing. If you are coming from the right intention, if you communicate the message and what you want to achieve, even if it's audacious and you think others will think you're crazy, because it's the only way to attract the right type of people if you're open about your intentions about the future. And if that attracts the right people, that's the Best outcome you can have. And this is the proof of everything that happened inside the tech leadership lab until today.
SPEAKER_01:Awesome. Well, bravo. And uh I I commend you highly. Um, and being audacious, uh, you have to be audacious. It's it's the old adage of go big or go home, right? So I say go big, and it sounds like things are really um exploding for you. So congrats on that. Um, is there an how would if how would our audience or anyone in our audience who would like to connect with you, how would they do that?
SPEAKER_00:I'm LinkedIn first. The entire movement started there. I'm very active. So Christina Imre on LinkedIn and Tech Leadership Lab also on LinkedIn. We have our website now, techleadershiplab.org, and you will see our event and everything that's coming up from now on, because we just launched our website, and that's absolutely awesome.
SPEAKER_01:That's awesome. Congratulations. That's great. And if I might add, you're also our current visiting virtual expert. And if you uh want to connect with Christina, you can go to the Cabo homepage as well. And there you will see Christina and links to um tech her her um her lab, her leadership lab, and other other uh links as well. So thank you so much for joining us, Christina. And thank you for joining us in support of the Center for the Advancement of Virtual Organizations. Uh, your insights have been truly so valuable, and I'm confident our listeners will benefit from the great information that you've shared.
SPEAKER_00:Thank you so much, Melody, for having me, inviting me. And let me tell you that your energy and what you want to be at here and the help you are throwing into the world in a virtual setting for virtual organizations because this is the future, it's very much needed. And for me, it's always a pleasure to have a chat with you and also hear from your wisdom and research and everything you're doing in this space. So, this is my pleasure. Thank you so much.