CAVO Ep 98: Navigating Connection, Boundaries, and Self-Care in Remote Work

Remote work has changed how we live and work, but it also comes with real challenges. In this episode, host Stephanie Menefee talks with Rachel Jacobsen about setting boundaries, staying connected, and practicing self-care in virtual environments. They share personal stories and practical strategies to help remote workers find balance, manage loneliness, and protect their well-being.

Transcript

SPEAKER_00: 0:01

Welcome to the Center for the Advancement of Virtual Organizations podcast. Navigating Boundaries, Connection, and Self-Care in Remote Work. I'm Stephanie Menifee, and today I'm joined by Rachel Jacobson, the CEO of Wellness Works Consulting. Rachel, thank you for coming and talking to us today. Thanks for having me. I am so excited to dive into today's conversation. I think it's one that so many of us need right now because remote work has opened up so many possibilities, but it's also brought some very real challenges, especially when it comes to boundaries, connection, and taking care of ourselves. So I just think that before we dive into your background and what drew you to the topic, I'd like to start with a little bit of a moment of reflection. I think probably because this particular podcast hits really close to home for me. Thinking about, I think 15 years ago, I started my first remote work job and I was, you know, tied to my computer, and I wasn't sure if I could even get up and do my laundry. And I had this fantastic mentor who I was paired with. And one day he laughed at me and he said, Stephanie, you can live your life and do your work. So I'm I'm wondering if if you ever had this light bulb moment, you know, like do you is there a moment that you can share with us that maybe you realized your boundaries in remote work were either too loose or too rigid and how you adjusted? Sure, yeah.

SPEAKER_01: 1:31

Oh, I love that question. I love that question because I think, oh gosh, right now I feel like um I feel like I used to be better at it. And right now I'm having trouble with it, which is kind of like the opposite of what you said. Like, you know, it makes sense to to start out in in something new, like a new arrangement, a new situation for work or personal life or whatever. But usually you get better at things, right? You learn lessons, you implement strategies, use tools, and you get better at things. But, you know, I guess with life, there's always an ebb and a flow. And and I think a long time ago, I think, you know, just um I had a more structured life, I think. Um, meaning like um I had a lot of commitments where I had to be out of the house and I had to show up in places, whether it was graduate school or um I was really committed to a hot yoga practice for many, many years. And when I have things going on outside of the house, like I did back then, and this is in, let's see, I started um remote work in uh around 2010. I was uh, I think I was better at having those setting boundaries for my workday so that I could get out of the house and go do the things that I had scheduled outside of the house. So fast forward to you know 2025, and I've been doing this for so long, right? But um something that, you know, a variable, right? Like, so I got a dog a few months ago. So having the dog and having, you know, a similar work in my life now, I feel like I haven't been good as good at making appointments to get out of the house and be places. So right now, this is really, it's like I think saying this out loud and talking with you about it is helping me to realize that that's a strategy that I need to implement again. Getting things on my calendar and committing to, you know, Monday, Wednesday, Friday, where I plan to be doing something outside of the house or on different days. And right now it's so flexible for me, which is really nice, um, that I could be going to do, you know, exercise or social something or running errands or grocery shopping anytime I want to. Um and I think with that flexibility, every day is kind of different for me. And it's actually not feeling as good to me as it used to when I had to do those things at um at designated times.

SPEAKER_00: 4:09

Yeah, I I love that. Um thank you for sharing. I think it's uh funny sometimes how small moments can end up teaching us really big lessons, right? Yeah. Yeah. So I now I want to ask you more questions, but let's back up a bit um because I want I want to know a little bit more about your background and um, you know, more about what interests you about the topic of remote work and boundaries and self-care and all these things we're gonna talk about today.

SPEAKER_01: 4:36

Oh, yeah, sure, sure. Okay, well, I'll start out um by saying my name is Rachel Jacobson, and I am the president and CEO of Wellness Works Consulting. Um, so that's the company that I have now, and I work as a consultant for healthcare companies, health insurance companies. So um I'm not an employee, and the only time, let me back up and say the only time that I was an employee that was working remotely was I think it was like uh 2010 to 2012, I was an employee at um a healthcare company called Value Options, and I worked at home once or twice a week. I think it was once a week to start, and then you know, that that flexibility started to become, it was the very beginning of that being popular, but you know, healthcare companies like to be at the forefront of offering benefits that that really like we sold, we sold uh work-life balance to people. We sold programs to help people do that. So we were trying to implement them before it became very popular, you know. So um, that was the only time I as an employee worked remotely, but I shifted into being a consultant right after that. So around 2013, um, I've been a consultant uh for these healthcare companies. So what I do, um what I do, what my company does is we help companies, um, healthcare companies win business. So we do business development and proposal management for healthcare companies. And I focus mostly on winning Medicaid contracts for healthcare companies. So doing the project management and the writing, editing, um, and the production of these, you know, multi-million and multi-billion dollar contracts. It's highly competitive, it's um it's extremely deadline driven. And um as a consultant, you really got to be at the top of your game and know um know the work really well. That's what companies you know hire us for. So that's a little bit about what I do. Um and I can give a little bit more about my background and why I'm interested in you know remote work and boundaries and self-care. So so that's sort of like the business side of what I do. Um, I also have a background in counseling. So I've got a master's in counseling, and um I started a PhD program and uh I got you know licensure hours, uh, classes toward licensure hours and some of the PhD um classes under my belt. But I stopped there um with my education to become a counselor because this proposal work sort of like took over my life. I really loved the you know, the administrative side of healthcare. Um, and it also offered me a lot of flexibility. So, you know, when I was doing um counseling work and seeing clients one-on-one, I thought, you know, I really like this and I really like helping people, but doing that five days a week um felt a little bit like it might be a little draining for me. So um, and I had uh some other life circumstances that kind of required me to choose the work, um, the proposal work and keep moving with my life. That's like a whole other story. But anyway, so I've always been interested in business and I've always been interested in, you know, helping professions like teaching. So I taught yoga for a little while, practiced yoga for like over 20 years. So I've always had a focus on helping people and self-care. And I think, you know, like as a young person, I always like when I was in my teens and 20s, I was always kind of searching for the thing, like the physical exercise or the thing to really engage in, to like um ground myself, to feel physically vibrant. Because when I feel grounded and physically vibrant, I am so much better at the work that I do. You know, like I always think about how, you know, um doing yoga, if you're moving your body all the time, the yogis did yoga so that they could sit and meditate. And it kind of makes me laugh because you know, doing yoga makes it easier to sit at a computer and do work because your body is like so prepped and ready and doesn't get sore, and um you really can sustain these like long hours doing editing or something on a computer. So I kind of see that parallel. Um but yeah, so I, you know, I think it's be I I'm interested in in this because I've been I've been doing it and I've seen the ebb and the flow of how, you know, when you're at least for me, if I am practicing self-care regularly, it helps me be a better worker. Um, and so like I said in the beginning, you know, I've kind of let go of that a little bit. I think I've been tending to my dog and like, oh, I just want to hang out with him, I won't go work out. But I'm starting to, it's only been like four or five months. So I'm starting to see that when I get out of my self-care practice and I let my boundaries go, I don't feel as good. You know, like I'm still here getting my work done and like meeting my goals and everything at work, but I just don't feel as good. So I'm really interested, and my whole career I've always been interested in, you know, how to help people, how to have optimal performance and um living it and talking about it. Hopefully it will just help others and um, you know, just contribute to the tools that everybody can use because this is so much more common, you know, working remotely is so much more common now than it used to be.

SPEAKER_00: 10:37

It is a lot more common. And I I love all the things you just said, um, especially for those of our listeners who are also working with different teams. Um, you know, it's it's a nice adventure sometimes, but it can make it really difficult to create connections. So the things you're talking about, you know, mind, body, connection for yourself kind of prepares you to make that connection with other people sometimes, right?

SPEAKER_01: 11:03

Yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00: 11:05

So I I I would like to start by asking you how you intentionally foster connection in the remote environment, like especially on those days when it feels difficult, you know, the days that you, you know, you said that as a consultant, you have to be at the top of your game. And and I know that I don't always feel like I'm at the top of my game, but you know, you got to walk in that room and you have to to to do the things to connect with your team. So um how do you do that?

SPEAKER_01: 11:34

I was thinking about this and I thought, you know, at first I wanted to answer and say something about connecting with my actual team, you know, like the people I'm I'm employed to work with for these six months or three months, however, my my contracts are usually, you know, um half a year or four or five months or something. And and then, you know, it's it's over. It's sort of like it's sort of like people on a Broadway show or like in a you know, in a film, you're you're with these people and you're in the trenches for a few months, you get really close, and then you say goodbye, and maybe you're on a project again, you know, two years later or something. So, so first of all, like for my work, someone who isn't going to be an employee with a company for many, many years, um, you know that there's an end, right? So when you think about that model, the consultant model, not the employee model, it's really important if you decide to work as a consultant to when you start a project, you know, if you connect with anybody just because you're on a call together or maybe you're working on um you're working on some things together, connect with them on LinkedIn, um, exchange cell phone numbers, send them a text because chances are, like I I've worked with people this year that I worked with in 2007, you know. So, and maybe I I had seen their name in on other projects, but you know, this year and maybe like in 2022 or something, you know, they were on a project with me and we said we were like, oh, I remember you, you know. So it's important to really just be on good terms and stay connected to people. But more specifically, I think this is where I went. I was like, what actually what do I actually do when I'm feeling that way? And it's not always reaching out to people that I'm working with, it's reaching out to a mentor that I have that has hired me, or um someone that I love to work with who might be on a different project with a different company. Um so, you know, it's like I'll I'll be on a meeting and I'll hear something funny, and maybe I'll text my co-worker from 10 years ago who ended up being a friend of mine. Or I'll say, Hey, I just heard this thing and we have an inside joke about it. And I'll say, Hey, do you do you have time for a call today? Do you have like a half hour we can just chit-chat about our projects and like exchange stories? And and so reaching for me, it's really helpful to reach out to people that I'm not working with, but that do work similar to what what I do. So we can kind of like vent to each other or you know, encourage each other to do, like, you know, take a new um do a seminar, or you know, we end up talking about like like actually right now there's um a conference happening in Nashville, and I chose not to go. Um so you know, maybe we'll talk about that and how we'd like to go next year. So what works for me is not only reaching out to people that I'm working with, but keeping a list of people, just uh it could be one person. In my case, it's like it's two main people that I've worked with a lot that I love to reach out to, text, call, and just talk about work because um, you know, it's almost like a therapy session where you get to vent and exchange ideas and help each other. So I I say um it's important to yeah, talk to people outside of work that might that might do something similar to what you do.

SPEAKER_00: 15:17

Yeah, you know, I love that um because we talk about struggling with being lonely when we're working remotely. But um, you know, you're right, you you make those connections over the course of time. Um and and I love that you can go back and connect with them. I I'm wondering if maybe there are some listeners out there who might have trouble um initiating connection, you know, like you know, I'm thinking maybe, you know, if somebody is is new at this and is shy or um, you know, but maybe doesn't feel uh confident enough to open their mouth and even say anything to to somebody that they're working with, what is one like small step that somebody could take today to feel a little bit more connected and start building those, you know, relationships that you're talking about?

SPEAKER_01: 16:13

Yeah. God, that's such a that's a hard question to answer in a way, because I think, you know, like I'm I'm speaking from my perspective, right? And I'm an extrovert. I'm naturally, I've my whole life I've just been naturally um inclined to to say hello to someone or to reach out. I I did have times in my life when I when I felt a little bit more shy, but um I know it it feels like it's just too easy to say, give it a try and do that, you know, take a step, send a text, send an email, and see what happens. Because I I think you know that that would be my advice to just try it, because you'd be surprised um that people are are also eager to connect. So if you're wondering if they will or if they won't, it's always it's always okay to, you know, send a text, send a, you know, a chat, something to to connect with somebody. Um and you know, if they're not responsive, then you've got your answer. And you know, maybe it's just not the right time or the right person, but you know, don't give up. Don't give up because you will find people that you connect with and and like, you know, listen to your intuition too. It's it really does help guide us to, you know, be around the right people.

SPEAKER_00: 17:38

Yeah, I I love that. I love that you said that. Keep trying, because especially in the remote world where we can't, you know, we don't have that. Everybody talks about the water cooler talk. We don't have the um opportunity to see people's expressions or their, you know, their body language or things like that. And we're kind of reaching out just hoping that whoever's on the other side will want to connect, but we don't know what's happening with them. And so um, you know, I love that you say keep trying because today is one day and tomorrow is a different day. Um so thank you for for that piece of advice. Um I kind of want to go back to talking about caring for ourselves because I think also a big theme that comes into what you're talking about, you know, being able to try again tomorrow is making sure that we have filled ourselves up first. Um, because we won't get as upset or sad if someone doesn't respond the way that we hope that they will if we have cared for ourselves, right? So um I know you said a little bit earlier about self-care looking different now than when you first started working remotely. Um, but I'm curious if you've ever uh have you felt guilty setting boundaries or taking breaks while working? Um, you know, what how does how does self-care fit into your daily routine, you know, then or now?

SPEAKER_01: 19:06

Oh, yeah. Oh, that's such a good question. Um Wow, okay. Well, I have to point out, like I talked about earlier, um I am not an employee. So I the rules that I have, and that, you know, when I take on other people to work for me for a healthcare company, our rules as a consultant or contractor are different than an employee's. So let me paint the picture. So an employee might be required to, you know, be available from nine to five or whatever their hours are, if they're part-time, you know, it's like you've got to be available from these hours, you know, this hour to that hour. And um, and I from what I understand, there is more flexibility now for people, you know, if they've got to tend to things in their lives during that time. And I think just as it would be for an employee as a consultant, it's really important to be transparent about what you're doing. So, like today, um everything that I do is measured. So I log into my, you know, my current client's website, and they've got logs of when I'm logging in and logging out. So they know that how many hours I'm working, they can measure it. I also have to report it and give them a report every week about how many hours I worked each day. And for some people, I've got a log, you know, a list of activities that I did or what I tended to. So I think for me, um, this is gonna this is gonna go into something else that I've got a recommendation about, but which is understanding, you know, what model works for you best, being an employee, being a consultant, because they're different. Um, I really love the consulting model because having a deadline-driven um responsibility, it really um it really gets to like this competitive spirit that's inside of me. And I'm like, oh, I want to be the best, I want to do it well, and I want to meet my deadline. So it gives me energy to have these um constraints but and these deadlines, but it also the rules are that, you know, if I want to go in the middle of the day and be gone for three hours and tend to something, I can do that. Some projects are like that and some aren't. So I uh right now I happen to be on a project where I'm I'm doing a lot of writing and editing, um, and I don't have a lot of meetings. So I'm structuring my days so that I I have goals. And in this case, they're like, as long as every week you're meeting this goal that actually I set for myself, um, we we don't care if you're working at two in the morning or 9 a.m., just get it done. So I love that kind of structure because it allows for a lot of freedom, you know, like like I don't have to be out on a Saturday when there's like traffic and busy things happening, I can, you know, take a break on a Tuesday and go get my grocery shopping done and come home when the stores are, you know, not filled with people. So I really love that. But I think, you know, like so I I guess to answer the question about have you felt guilty? Well, if you're transparent and just block your calendar and you know show that you're gone for those hours, it eliminates the guilt. So I I guess just you know, know the rules, know the culture, and then um make sure you just like I'm very deadline driven and I I can I like that kind of um flexibility in the in the structure because if anything, it just makes me um I get things done faster. It really drives me to to get things done so that I can so that I can reward myself. Like my I'm giving myself the reward of being able to leave the house on a sunny afternoon, you know, from noon to two. Um so I really like I guess you know it really eliminates the the guilt that one might feel if you've got to go tend to something. Um and I I don't know, it does does that does that make sense?

SPEAKER_00: 23:39

It does, it makes perfect sense. And um I feel like for anyone who is listening today who has not realized that you can invite yourself to a meeting and accept it. Yeah, this might be a good time to start doing that. I I do it, I'll say it. Um, you know, like there are times where I have things I need to do. And um, you know, the part of the beauty of working remotely is as long as you're getting your work done, usually for most people, um, there aren't any questions about, you know, what what that meeting is on your calendar or why you're gonna be gone for an hour and a half in the middle of the day, or you know, and um that's what helps me take the guilt away because my calendar is up to date.

SPEAKER_01: 24:27

Yes, yes. I I think that the calendar, you know, Outlook is such an important tool. And that the transparency that that offers, you know, that's that's something in the beginning of the here's some advice. In the beginning of every project, I always talk to people about how they like to communicate. And I like to say to them things like, um, I'm very transparent. I always, you know, I use my calendar to block time that, you know, I'm not available. I'll even, you know, on my weekly meetings, I'll on an agenda, I'll put in an agenda item to just say, hey, is do we have any reminders that we have to um, you know, I know that everybody's documenting when they're out of the office, but are there is there anything coming up that somebody just wants to highlight so that we can all kind of, you know, go we haven't talked about it today, but learning styles are very important to me. So, you know, hearing something is very different than seeing it in writing for most people. So when you kind of layer the learning styles and you hear it and you see it, and you're reminded about it, that what that's how I define good communication. You know, it's repetition and showing it in different ways so that people remember and they can't say, you know, I didn't hear, I didn't know about that. Because you you've got to give people, I think, a couple, you've got to provide information in a few different ways sometimes so that everyone gets it. So that's another piece of advice that that's worked for me.

SPEAKER_00: 25:58

I think that's great. Um, and I I think it's a very valuable thing for us to file in our memories, exactly what you just said. Um and and speaking of advice, if you could give one piece of advice to someone starting remote work about balancing productivity, connecting with other people, and making sure they're taking care of their own well-being, what would it be? I know that's a difficult question, I think, but I feel like it's a good one to end on.

SPEAKER_01: 26:34

It is, it is. So one piece of advice for someone just starting out. So maybe they're either coming into a new career as an older person or they're a younger person starting. I think I think when you I'll go back to something I I just talked about. I think when you're coming into any new environment, any new team, and you're working in a remote situation, it's really good to ask, you know, hey, what's the culture of of the way that we work in on this team? You know, what works? Has has anyone ever misinterpreted what remote work is and and what was not good about that? How you know, ask what was good, what worked and what didn't work so that you don't make the same mistakes. And then, you know, just stay rooted in good communication and be very transparent with with everyone. And I think that that's like a good, a good base to to start with.

SPEAKER_00: 27:39

Uh you know, I love that. Um, I love it. And it takes me back to uh my beginning in remote work when my beautiful friend Gary said, you don't have to, you don't have to do what you're doing right now. Wow. If only I had had the foresight to ask how we do things, um, I probably could have saved myself a lot of anxiety. So thank you. That is a beautiful piece of advice. And I I hope that it helps everyone else as much as it helps my uh 15-year-old go brain. Oh, Rachel, thank you. Thank you so much for being here and sharing so openly with us. Um, you know, these conversations really do matter, and I know our listeners are gonna take away a lot from what you've shared. So thank you for your time and your energy today.

SPEAKER_01: 28:32

You're welcome. Thanks for having me. And um this has been a great reminder for me too. So thank you, and I hope you have a great week.

SPEAKER_00: 28:43

Thank you, you too.