National University Podcast Series

CAVO Podcast Ep. 100: The Presence Effect

• National University • Season 6 • Episode 100

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Our Special 100th Edition!

Presence changes everything! It impacts how learners respond, how they engage, and how they remember the experience. In this episode, Visiting Virtual Expert Dr. Laurie Hillstock chats with CAVO Director Dr. Melody Rawlings to share the small choices that make a big difference when we’re leading or teaching online, including how we open a session, how we use our tools, and how we convey tone.

SPEAKER_00:

Wow! 100 episodes! From our very first conversation to today's milestone, we wouldn't be here without you, our loyal listeners, our incredible guests, and the amazing community that's grown around this show. Every download, every share, every comment. You've helped Cabo become what it is today: a space for insight, innovation, and connection. A huge thank you to every guest who've shared their story, their expertise, and their passion along the way. You've made each episode unforgettable. And here's the best part. We're just getting started. The next hundred episodes will dive even deeper into the topics you care about most. Fresh voices, bold ideas, and conversations that challenge, inspire, and entertain. So keep tuning in, keep sharing, and stay part of the journey because the future of the Cabo podcast sounds better than ever. From all of us at Capo. Thank you for 100 episodes, and here's the next hundred. Welcome to the Center for the Advancement of Virtual Organizations for Cabo. I'm Melody Rollings, Director of Capo, and I'm thrilled to welcome you to today's episode of the Presence Effect. Joining me is Dr. Laurie Hillstock, our quarter four visiting virtual expert. And today we're exploring a topic that truly changes everything in digital spaces, and that's presence. Whether you're leading, teaching, or learning online, presence impacts how people respond, engage, and remember the experience. Dr. Hillstock will share real stories and practical strategies from her work in virtual classrooms and consulting sessions, including what's worked, what hasn't, and what she's learned along the way. So if you want to lead with care, teach with clarity, and build trust in digital spaces, this episode is for you because when you lead with presence, people feel it. Dr. Hillstott, please feel free to say hello to our listeners and share anything if you would like about your background.

SPEAKER_01:

Sure. Thank you so much, Melody. I am excited to be here. Um and to be honest with you, at my core, I am truly someone who believes in that power of connection, especially in virtual spaces. So I'm I'm just excited to share with you today.

SPEAKER_00:

Awesome. And I am right there with you. I've worked remotely for many years, and that that presence just cannot be uh shared or cannot be um, I guess, underscored enough. So let's begin with uh with this. Can you share a story from your experience that truly highlights the impact of presence in a virtual classroom or meeting?

SPEAKER_01:

Ah, yeah, and I'll and I'll be honest, this happened recently. So I I was leading a virtual leadership workshop, and as we got into things, I noticed I had one person in particular, uh, we'll just call her Maria for now. Uh she had her camera off and she wasn't responding to chat or posting reactions or anything. Everybody else was totally engaged and I couldn't get anything out of her. So I took a risk, I'll be honest. I said, Maria, I'm really glad you're here. I've heard great things about your work, and I'd love to hear your thoughts as we go along, especially as related to, and then I just filled in the blank. And I was able to do that because I I had a little bit of background on each person that was in that leadership workshop. Um and believe it or not, that particular moment changed everything. Oh, wow. Her camera came on, she started engaging, and really by the end of the session, she had contributed all kinds of excellent points on mic. Um, and you know, I don't always call someone out in front of a group. That's not always safe. Uh, in fact, many times I'll send a private message first just to sort of check in gently, you know. Um, but I did take a risk and it worked out. I I think because she could feel that it came from a place of care. And she told me that later after the session ended. Um and you know, I know that example comes from a workforce development setting, but I think the same principle applies in higher education. You know, in online classes I teach, I I I use uh I use short, very personalized check-ins with my students. Sometimes it might be through announcements or discussions or direct messages, just to let them know, hey, I see you. Um and I have found that to be especially important for adult learners or those that are balancing work, family, and school. Um, so you know, they really just need to know that we care, and when people feel that, that care, they engage more deeply. And to me, that's where presence really starts.

SPEAKER_00:

Oh, totally agree. And that's a very powerful story uh to demonstrate just how presence can shift the energy, especially in a virtual space. And you know, all of us just want to be valued, respected, valued, and heard. That's true. And yeah, and when when we ask, sometimes people may be hesitant to speak up, just like uh Maria was that you uh just described. And but once that they realize, hey, you know, my voice does count, they are looking for me to weigh in on this, and then it changes everything. It can change just change everything. So, how do you personally define presence in digital spaces and why do you believe it matters so much for learning and leaders? You've kind of already uh described that a little bit, but could you uh define presence for us and expound on that a little bit?

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah, yeah. So to me, presence is that intentional energy we bring into a space, any space. I know we're talking about digital spaces right now, but all digital spaces aren't necessarily 100% virtual, right? Could be hybrid, it could be whatever. But, you know, here's here's a good example. My team and I often say how we show up matters. And when we say that, we're really talking about presence. You know, are we caring? Are we consistent? Are we authentic? Are we transparent? You know, in digital spaces, we don't always have that benefit of eye contact or the nods or facial expressions, you know, those those physical cues that help us to know that someone is engaged with us. So we have to be deliberate and digital. And and present shows up in our tone and in our responsiveness from the moment before we officially open a session all the way through to how we close it and then follow up. Um, so it's not just what we say, it's how we carry the experience, hence, how we show up matters. So, can I give you an example about that? Oh, yes, please. Um this started as a little bit of a uh an internal joke with my team, and they're gonna they're gonna laugh when they hear me talk about this out loud. But it's because it's manifested itself into something very, very real for us. Um my team and I use what we call hillstock time, okay? And so for us, that means we log in 15 to 20 minutes early of every session, whether we're facilitating it or not. We we get there early and we we do our part to set up the room, recheck the tech, and make sure everything is sort of working smoothly uh before anyone else can get into the space. Now that prep time helps us facilitate our sessions in a more calm, focused, and confident way. And it really sends a message to those participating that this space matters, and so do you.

SPEAKER_00:

I love that. And what I'm hearing you say is presence is both a mindset and a practice.

SPEAKER_01:

Correct. Correct. And so if you know, we walk around, they even put it on a t-shirt. The front of the t-shirt says Hillstock Time, and the back of it says how we show up matters.

SPEAKER_00:

Oh, that's great. What a what great, what a great reminder to uh are not only ourselves, but to our team. But wait, but we know it's not always easy, right? No, not at all. Well, so what are some common challenges that you've seen when it comes to creating presents online and how have you addressed them?

SPEAKER_01:

Ooh, that's a really good question. Um in my experiences, I think one of the biggest challenges, Melody, is that is that temptation to treat virtual spaces as transactional. Yes. You know, you just log in, deliver the content, and you log out. But presence doesn't work that way. It it requires intentionality. You know, so many times I I will send a short pre-message, just a couple of lines to let people know what to expect, how they can contribute, or even just that I'm looking forward to seeing them in the space. It's really simple, but it sends the signal that this isn't just a drop-in, drop-out kind of space. It's a shared experience. And that small little gesture can change the energy before anyone even logs in. Um, you know, uh another challenge that is kind of common is that camera-off culture, so to speak. Like some people don't want to turn their cameras on for a lot of reasons, right? Um, they may not be camera ready, so to speak, or they could be multitasking or or just believe it or not, not sure if they're truly welcome in the space they're coming into, they don't feel safe. And that's the scary part because our job as facilitators is to create that safe space so people can learn. Um, so so one way I've addressed this challenge is by changing my focus from visibility to to value.

SPEAKER_00:

I love that.

SPEAKER_01:

Um, and uh what I mean by that is um I I might say something like uh please turn on your well rather instead of saying turn on your camera, I might say something like um we'd love to see you if you're comfortable.

SPEAKER_00:

I like that.

SPEAKER_01:

But either way, your voice matters here in this space. So if you re if you prefer to use the chat, if you prefer to use reactions, in some cases, if what you're saying is highly sensitive, if you want to send me a private message, then I'll tweak it to share with the overall group. But I want your voice to be heard. And that small little thing lets people know that they're welcomed without pressure. Um, and really over time I found I've gotten more people to more fully engage whether they have the camera on or not.

SPEAKER_00:

You know, I can imagine because what a great way to create a safe space.

SPEAKER_01:

It is, and it's it's been it's been an interesting experience because I had to I've had to grow through that one because it always bothered me that people didn't have their cameras on, and I thought there's gotta be a way of doing that. And um it just kind of came out in one session, it wasn't planned, and I thought, ooh, that worked. Let me try it again. Um, and I think it it boiled down to being being comfortable with who the audience was. It doesn't work for everybody, right? You have to know your audience. Um can I can I add one more challenge? Oh yes, please. Um I've seen, you know, I work across sectors. I work in healthcare, I work in higher ed, K through 12, business, nonprofit. So I've seen facilitators and instructors struggle with silence. Right? They ask a question, no one responds, no one reacts, so they rush to fill in the gap. But what I've learned is that sometimes presence means holding space. So I've learned to wait and to breathe, right? Even to say, I'll tell you what, I'll give you a moment or 30 seconds to think about that point, and I'll wait for your responses in the chat or for you to raise your hand for the opportunity to come on mic and share. Um, I'll just say that because that pause can be powerful.

SPEAKER_00:

That's a great point. That is such a great point because, as you said, I'll say this for myself. I do rush to fill in that gap. I don't know why. I mean, that's some kind of a human phenomenon. I don't know why I do that. But you're so right. It's okay to pause and let there be silence for a few moments. It's fine. And I've learned that when presenting too. It's okay to pause and gather your thoughts.

SPEAKER_01:

It really is, and I think it is because just in general conversation, when we're talking with people, people don't like to do eye contact. That makes them uncomfortable. Silence makes people uncomfortable, and we have to try to work against that, right? So I have learned that that pause creates space for really deep thinking, and it lets people know that I'm really present with them in that moment. And and I and I know I've had people ask me about this before, and I'll say, and people say, Lori, I don't have time for that. And and and my response is is is not as cavalier as it seems. I will I've literally said I believe you don't have a choice if you want real connection. So you need to make time for that.

SPEAKER_00:

Exactly.

SPEAKER_01:

You know, true engagement with content requires reflection. It doesn't matter if it's a one-hour, a half day, a three-day deal, or 14-week course. If you want your audience to connect with you and the material, you have to give them space to think.

SPEAKER_00:

That's for sure. Because if you just if you expect them to answer instantly, as you said, you're not gonna get, if they do answer, it's it may not be a very deep thought out response that would they they you would have had had you given them a few moments.

SPEAKER_01:

Right, because we always hear, especially in online courses, even if a lot of faculty have started putting this in their discussion board instructions, you know, you're not allowed to include shoot from the hip responses. But when we don't allow the time for reflection in a live session or in or or enough days to give even in an in an asynchronous session, enough days for people to reflect, we're setting them up for shoot-for-the-hip response.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, exactly. That's what you're gonna get.

SPEAKER_01:

That's what you're gonna get. So I think the overall key here is to stay responsive to the audience you have in the moment, right? Live in the moment. It's not about having a script or something to memorize. It's a to me, presence is about something you embody, that actual energy you bring, that authentic connection. And I believe that when we model that, other people start to mirror that. And that's what we want from our audience, right? We want them to engage.

SPEAKER_00:

Absolutely. And that makes me also think of being intentionally present or being, I'm sorry, predictably present. So if they know they can count on uh you for uh or one of us for being predictably present, I think that can also make a big difference. And it takes a while to build that predictability, but once people know that, I think it builds trust.

SPEAKER_01:

Yes, I do. And it's a scary thing. I admit that up front, as um as a facilitator. When I started to move into this space of presence, I thought I have to live in the moment. You know, I'm one of those people. Some people say I have a type A personality where I used to literally time things out by the second if it was a live session. I'd have a full run of show, right? And I had a plan B and a plan C and a plan D if it didn't work. But and all that's great. And I what I've learned is that I need those backup plans to give me a level of comfort, but it's really okay to just say, you know what, this isn't working right now. Let me just move this to the side and and really deal with the people that are in front of me. Rather that be speaking in, you know, uh, you know, in a live session or in a workshop or even even a seven, four, fourteen-week course, sometimes what you plan that week, and the way you plan to deliver that content is not working and you have to adjust.

SPEAKER_00:

Exactly. And you have to adjust a lot of times on the fly, right?

SPEAKER_01:

Correct. And that's what presence is. If I'm present with those students and they're present with me, then I can make that adjustment because we all know we're human. And what happens is that they start to they really, in my experiences, have appreciated that adjustment because it's like she recognized that wasn't working, so she adjusted and got to me. She was able to reach me in a way that no one else has ever been able to reach me.

SPEAKER_00:

And and it makes them feel valued, correct.

SPEAKER_01:

And they cut they keep coming back, and then they dig deeper, and I'm like, wow, I didn't think about that. That's a great thought. And then, you know, next thing you know, the discussion is really ramping up, and it's not just uh, you know, post your response by Wednesday or Thursday and a feedback to two uh core classmates by by Sunday. I'll go in the discussion, it's like, whoa, I've been out of this thing for two days, and look at all these things that are in here that they've gotten deep.

SPEAKER_00:

Wow. That's great. Uh and those are those the hurdles you've described are real hurdles.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00:

And your strategies are so practical. I really appreciate that because I can actually implement those strategies because I understand exactly, you explained so clearly exactly what I what I've experienced, and then what I can do to overcome those hurdles. So could you can we pivot just a little bit and can you describe a small choice or technique that you've used that's made a big difference in how you teach or lead online? And you've already alluded to that a lot, uh, but it may be something simple but surprisingly effective. Can you is there anything else along those lines?

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah, yeah. Um, a couple things. Let me let me go back to one thing I said just a few seconds ago. Um uh the healstock time deal. That 15 to 20 minutes early helps me to fully focus. So by the time people start to arrive, I'm not scrambling. I'm not trying to, oh, this didn't work, that didn't work, what do I do? I'm already settled and I'm fully ready to connect, which is scary because I can bring a whole lot of energy to something to pull back on that, right? Um, and then from there, I greet people by name. As they come in, and I'll say, Hey Melanie, how you doing? Hey, Sue, hey John, I'll talk to them. Um, and whether that be in a live session or discussion forum or email, wherever I interact with them, right? I greet them by name. I don't just post stuff. And I use names throughout the session or the class. So even if I'm posting a discussion, I might say, Hey, Melanie, this is a good point. I might add something to that, and then say, but did you also realize that, you know, Sam had a point that's similar to that? Go check out his. I mean, it's the whole thing, it's it's really about a conversation. Um, and and and there are times I've done this, um, once we officially start, I may open up with a simple check-in, uh, something like, what's one word that describes where you are right now? Or how are you feeling about being a part of this session? Because I do a lot of leadership development, so I want to know where people are before we get too deep into things. Um, or I might do like a mid-session check-in, something like that. But then I hold those seconds for people to enter their responses. Um, and and it's taking a risk, I know that, because responses could be positive, they could be really negative, or anywhere in between. And and what I've come to realize is that that's okay because they're telling me where they are in the moment, and I have to accept that, right? If I know where you are in the moment, and it's like I really don't want to be here, my boss just made me come, then I can deal with that. Right. Um, so I have even read off some of the responses and given feedback, recognizing that it's really okay if someone isn't feeling it in the moment. It's totally gone. And when they realize that I'm okay with with where they are, that that that changes stuff for people. Because they're like, she's just being real. There are moments I don't, I'm not feeling it either. But we're here. So what do you want to do?

SPEAKER_00:

I love that. I love that because it's just keeping it so real.

unknown:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah. And that's that's really tough. Uh, another thing that I'll do is um I might drop a quick poll mid-session or or ask where they, you know, what's resonating with them in the moment or or not. There have been times I have been known to do this, and I'm I'm gonna say this. I know this is being recorded. I've been known to throw a dance party slap in the middle of a session. I have. I'm just like, they are they this is this this content's too intense, and this is a lot that is heavy for people. And so I might say, you know what, let's just take a five-minute stretch break, and I'll throw on uh what is it, uh, Pharrell, that I'm so happy music or something, and I'll say just have a dance party, and I'll just throw the music on.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, that's great. That is great. And what what a way how music can change the the whole dynamic.

SPEAKER_01:

It does. I mean, you know, I know, yes, I am a professional, but I'm I'm a consultant and I'm a human being, and I have credentials, but it's because of all of that that I can recognize that we're all just people and sometimes we're dealing with heavy stuff.

SPEAKER_00:

That's right. That's exactly right. And we're all we're all human, we're all walking, we all walk similar paths sometimes, but we all have the same emotions and feelings.

SPEAKER_01:

We do, and sometimes just pressing through it is not what we need to do.

SPEAKER_00:

Exactly. Oh, those are such great tips. Um, sometimes it is just the little things, as you mentioned, a warm greeting, a thoughtful pause that you talked about, or just the way we use tools that just can make all the difference. And we just don't take time to think about those things uh too often, or at least I don't. So, you know, for listeners who want to lead with care and build trust in digital spaces, uh, what are a few quick wins or just practical tips they can try right away?

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah, that's a good one.

SPEAKER_00:

Uh shared so many great ones.

SPEAKER_01:

Well, I I think it's important. I had to learn this, I had to learn this the hard way. I had to learn to be intentional with my tone. You know, um uh in digital spaces, tone carries more weight than what we realize. So what we say and how we say it, how we sound, it's all a part of how we shape the experience. So, you know, we may not be feeling well, we may have a cold, or we may have had a bad moment right before we had to come in and facilitate, or whatever that is, but if we're carrying that into the session, our tone is gonna be a little dampened. That's right. Which means in that virtual space, people are gonna fall behind the leader, right? So if the leader's bringing a lot of energy, then it's likely gonna get a few people to bring some energy. And then eventually you might you might get everybody, you may not get everybody, but you might get everybody to bring some energy. So I've had to really learn to be very intentional with my tone uh with people. And and I think a another one is um uh I had I I've gotten to where I'm not afraid to follow up. Like after a session, um, especially if someone shares something really insightful or has a great session, a great idea, or or they had the courage to share something vulnerable, um I make make it a point to circle back with them, even if it's just a quick email or simple simple note in the LMS, um, or depending on what it is, it may be a phone call or even a shout out in the next session if it's a two, three part or something like that. Um and I think because I think that follow-up says, you know what, Melody, I heard you and I remembered. And to me that it it is, and I think it builds trust and it shows that presence doesn't end just because we ended the session, right? Exactly. Um, it lingers in how we acknowledge people and how we carry their contributions forward. Um and sometimes it may just be you raised such a valid point, and I know it was a scary thing for you, but I think it would serve people well if I could reshare it. I can strip away your name, I can strip away things so people won't know it was you, but can I use that for a future example?

SPEAKER_00:

Wow.

SPEAKER_01:

Um and and more times than not I've received a yes. In fact, I've only received a no twice in in seven years I've asked that question, I've received a no twice.

SPEAKER_00:

Wow.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah, not very often. Not very often. So I think these are really small things, but they build trust and they say to those participating, this space is for you, you matter in this moment, right? And to me, that's where that real engagement lies. And that speaks to the presence effect.

SPEAKER_00:

Oh, absolutely. Everything that you have shared is just so helpful. I love your energy, and all the great strategies and tips are so are so actionable, and I and I just love that. And here at Cabo, we're all about practical strategies and tips that people who are listening, our audience, can go back and take and implement. Uh, Dr. Hillstock, before we go, do you uh can you share with our audience how they can get in touch with you?

SPEAKER_01:

Absolutely. Um, quickest, easiest way is to visit our website, hillstockconsulting.com, uh, or you can always send me a quick email at info at hillstockconsulting.com.

SPEAKER_00:

Awesome. And can they connect with you on LinkedIn?

SPEAKER_01:

Absolutely. Um, just go ahead and send that connection right over. Uh, just look up Lori Hillstock, or you can uh that's my personal, or you can connect with the business at Hillstock Consulting.

SPEAKER_00:

Awesome. That's perfect. So thank you so much, Dr. Hillstock. I just really appreciate you being here and sharing these great tips. And to everyone listening, remember presence changes everything, as Dr. Hillstock has taught us. When you live with care and clarity, you build trust, even if it's across the screen. This has been the Presence Effect, brought to you by Capo. I'm Melody Rawlings, and until next time, stay present and keep advancing remote and hybrid work.