CAVO Ep. 38: Emotional Intelligence & Conflict Resolution

Are you an emotionally intelligent communicator? Listen as Scott Warwick, author of Solve Employee Problems Before They Start: Resolving Conflict in the Real World, joins Dr. Stephanie Menefee from the School of Business at NCU as they discuss managing conflict in the virtual environment using emotional intelligence through empathic listening, parroting, and rewards. This fun and engaging conversation will cause you to think of managing conflict in new ways.

Transcript

00:02

Welcome to the Center for the advancement of virtual organizations podcast, emotional intelligence and conflict resolution. I'm Stephanie Menifee. And today we're joined by Scott Warrick employment attorney and HR professional with over 40 years in the field. If you're interested, check him out at Scott Warrick.com. That's scottwarick.com. Scott also has a book series in the works. And the one we're referring to today is titled solve employee problems before they start, if you're interested in conflict resolution, I have to say Do yourself a favor and pick up a copy of this book. Scott, welcome. And thank you so much for taking the time to come chat with us about emotional intelligence and conflict resolution.

00:45

Oh, it's my pleasure. nobody in my family wants to talk about this. So I rely on folks like you who want to chat about this topic.

00:57

Oh, you know what, you can come here anytime and talk to us about this stuff. It's it's one of my favorite topics. And actually, last week, we had a guest come chat with us about conflict in virtual teams. And he shared this philosophy on being mindful and present throughout a conflict and coming from a place of care, which I actually think is going to tie in beautifully as an underlying theme for what we'll be talking about today. But to get us started, can you tell us a little bit about yourself and why this topic is important to you?

01:23

Yeah, actually, it's kind of funny whenever I go someplace to speak. And it's really interesting. I just got back from Phoenix, Arizona. And and I'll tell you, when it is snowing and 10 degrees here in Columbus, Ohio. Phoenix is pretty good. Okay. So it's, it's, it's interesting. I get introduced that I'm an attorney. So I went to law school, my master's degree is in human resources. But I will tell you point blank, the most important degree is the one nobody talks about. And it's my undergraduate degree in organizational communication. Communication is everything. Communication is everything. 

And the reason being, is you absolutely can't get through a day without conflict. And I love talking to fellow conflict resolution geeks and people like me that just live for this kind of stuff. And the reason being is in understand, I'm an employment attorney, and, and not too many fuzzy feel good things about us. Okay. And I'm a very different type of attorney. And let me just sort of specify I've got folks, fellow attorneys to say, well, Scott doesn't really practice law because he doesn't litigate. Well, first of all, I do litigate, and actually, I just won one case here in January. So I will tell you, if you litigate, the only people who win are the lawyers. Now, you will never probably hear that from another attorney. But I will tell you right now, um, I just want a case for a new client who didn't practice what I teach and all the Prevention's from what I know about communication, human resources on the law. 

And we won their case, me and my partners to win this case, have $200,000 in attorneys fees. Okay, now, let that sink in for a minute. Okay, would you win, you win anything, I got you out of a hole. So I will tell you right now, and this is coming from somebody that has been in the law. One of my books, I literally did write the book, about 700 pages on federal employment law has used it a few colleges and universities. And I will tell you right now, you will never have a legal problem. You will never have a workplace violence problem. You will never have a union problem. You will never have a morale problem. All of those are symptoms. And let me tell you right now I'm going to cut right to the chase because I like easy on picture those is all dandelions under the dirt. 

The root cause of all those problems is you have a toxic work environment. And what's that mean? It isn't safe to voice your opinion, it isn't safe to disagree with a co worker, or a supervisor. That means there's no trust. So my first book, actually, I've got several books coming out. I chose solve employee problems before they happen, resolving conflict in the real world because that's the hub. The most important book I will ever write is that first one because it goes into deep explanation of what emotional intelligence is, which is controlling yourself, which is what your other speaker was talking about, probably with mindfulness. They're all the same types of things, and then how to resolve conflict and I've got a very simple type of program EPR, empathic listening, parroting and rewards and we can talk about that. But I promise you, I tell you right now, if you can make an environment where it is safe for people to disagree with each other, your employment law problems, your workplace violence, all those problems will go away. That's why I just impassionate about this topic.

05:23

Yeah, I can hear the passion in your voice. I love it. And, and you're right, that safe space is so important. And so I'd really like to talk a little bit more about emotional, emotional intelligence, being at the core of conflict management. So can you expand a little on why Ei is so important in problem solving? And when I for our listeners when I say Ei, that's the short for emotional intelligence?

05:48

Yes, yes, you got it right on the head here. And again, I'm very much into neurology. And if anybody deals with humans, you have to understand the human brain. It's that simple. It explains everything. And what we discovered about the human brain in the last 20 years, eclipses everything we've known for the last 5000. And I will tell you point blank in the book, there is a significant portion of the book that talks about why we humans are emotional beings. And it all goes back to fight or flight. 

I mean, back when Fred Flintstone was walking around, and we live next door to him in the hut. He was wired for fighter flight. So you'll probably probably heard this a dozen times, you, me, everybody in the planet, we all have these two little sentinels that sit right behind our eyeballs above our ears, and they're called our mykolas. Our amygdalas are always watching. And just think about this in 17 thousandths of a second, you can't even count. You can't blink your eyes and 17 1000s of a second, that emotional signal is sent down from your menus through your vagus nerve, to your gut. That's why when somebody cuts you off in traffic, or somebody yells at you, or somebody demean you, we go into fight or flight. And I will tell you as humans, our first reaction is to run away. 

Which means if we're in a conflict, what what do we do? We're passive aggressive. So I will tell you, you go to fight or flight. So you either go to flight, which is passive aggressive, or you go to fight like the stereotypical Simon cow. That is how we typically communicate neither of those works. And I'm here to tell you right now, all of us, we have one fight or flight response. And our first reaction when we are in a conflict with another person is always wrong. It's always wrong, because we've got these 5000 year old brains that are designed to run away or kill. And it's just that right there. What is emotional intelligence, you've got to make sure you're slowing down, taking that five seconds to think. So that your frontal lobes, which are right up in your forehead, can catch up with those images, those images are right next to your brainstem. So, and actually, there's an exercise we go through. You want to play this little game with me, Stephanie,

08:33

yeah, let's do it. Okay, it's fun. I love this just to play with somebody who's a medievalist, okay. You and I were gonna say a word together a 10 times, and then I'm gonna ask you a question and see how long it takes you to answer. Okay, so this is group participation. So, you and me right now, okay, we're gonna say the word white. So the word is white. So we're gonna say it 10 times. So you ready?

08:57

Yes. Okay, ready. white, white, white, white, white, white, white, white, white, white,

09:06

What do cows drink? Milk? cows. cows drink water.

 09:11

Oh my gosh. Yeah.

09:15

So, this only works if your human character is good. It's the way we're designed. We are not designed to think we are designed to attack it, we get it wrong. Okay, now, let me show you the whole nature of emotional intelligence. Okay, okay. Slow down and think that five seconds is the difference between success and failure? I promise you, and let me tell you right now, watch the video of Amy Cooper. When she was in the rambles you remember her the New York Karen and she called the police on Christian Cooper. 

The African American birdwatcher, and she was you saw what happened. She went into fight or flight. She's short of breath. Okay, she, she went into fight or flight. And so all of these things came out of her mouth, making a false police report about Christine Cooper. And it's ruined her life. Her life is over. Okay, so the dog humane society will not let her take dogs anymore. She lost her job. $170,000 a year vice president position at Franklin Templeton fired. She is an emotional leper. No one will hire her and she said in her interviews, it has destroyed my life. Now. Here's what I always think. I wish I'd gotten my hands on Amy Cooper before this. I mean, not literally, but I wish I'd had her in class. I wish I could have had to read the book, do something because stop and think for five seconds, because your first reaction is always wrong. Now, let's do another one. Stephanie and you're going to get it right now feel better?

 11:03

I'm getting.

11:07

Okay, so we're gonna say the word joke. So you and I are gonna say the word joke together 10 times, then I'm gonna ask you a question. Please don't say anything. for five seconds. That is how slow witted we humans are. We're not wired to think we're wired to react. And it's killing our society today. Oh, by the way, when I'm describing to you about being passive aggressive and overreacting, that right there since the book came out, and actually before I even published the book, I get a lot of requests to go speak to social workers and psychologists and psychiatrists who are marriage counselors. And I told them, I said, well, you do know I'm a lawyer, right? 

I'm kind of the opposite of what you want. But it's Oh, no, no, people come into marriage counseling at 100 150 bucks an hour to talk about things that they should have been talking about at the kitchen table for the last five years. So that's the whole point. So okay, so you and I are going to say the word job together 10 times then I asked you a question. But Chuck is saying hang for five seconds. So ready? joke joke. Joke. Joke. Joke. Joke. Joke. Joke. Joke. Joke. Joke joke. What do you call the white part of the egg? Don't say anything. Let it cook. Let him move to your frontal lobes. Okay. Now, what do you call the white part of the egg? You can answer now.

12:37

That while I we could call them anything I call them egg whites and white.

12:42

There you go. Shell would be good.

12:44

Oh, that side part the inside when you cook it at this all good. Farmers, I always get ovalbumin just trying to show off their vocabulary, I think or whatever. But you know how now here's the question. I'll bet everybody listening to this. They really wanted to say yolk, didn't they?

 13:03

You know what I was gonna say? If I had answered right after even though I heard you say what's the white part of the egg. The first word that came into my brain was yolk and I thought, darn it, he got me again. And I do this for a living of a conflict resolution practitioner and you got me twice.

13:19

I fought and I love this. I love it. When I get together with emotional intelligence, conflict resolution geeks like me, because if you are human, this works. It doesn't work on your dog. But it works on every human on the planet. And this is the universal nature and and in my book is becoming more and more and more. I'm just so thrilled with the internet and everything else. I woke up one day. And my little book, I got an email from a globalist which is a leadership development firm over in Germany. 

And he listed My book is one of the 20 must reads for 2020 and 2021. And I'm telling you, it just made my day that this can be used to make better organizations where it's safe. I mean, this is the first step in getting rid of bullying. And if you don't do it, if you don't recognize that we are all human, that emotional intelligence will be our undoing. If we don't have it, then I use diagrams and everything. Picture a baseball diamond. To understand my book, just look at first base. First base is emotional intelligence. Because if you cannot control yourself, you will never get to first base and you will never resolve a conflict with anybody. But if you can, then the easy part comes. Then you go to second base and those are the EPR skills, empathic listening, parroting rewards, but the vast majority of all conflicts never have a chance of being resolved. Because people will not control their emotions. And if you don't believe me, just watch Congress. You know Motion children.

15:01

Yeah. Okay, so I have another question for you, certainly. So, for anyone listening, who is thinking, Oh, I might need help with this AI thing? What's your advice for how someone can develop or even enhance their emotional intelligence?

15:17

You know, that's such a good question that it took me about 80 pages in the book to look at that. But let me just give you the capsule here. First and foremost, the number one thing to do is to recognize that you're human. Recognize that recognize that you are an emotional beast. Okay? Fred never had to worry about resolving conflicts as much as staying alive. Okay. So that's the first thing to recognize your first reaction to a conflict with another person is always wrong. So once you recognize that, and you understand we're flawed. Take that five seconds, and slow down. Think, okay. And so that's the capital right there, in which I talk in the book about this is what's actually happening in your brain. 

And, and I'll tell you, when people realize what is happening with their body, what is actually happening. If Amy Cooper had recognized what was happening in her body, she would not have thrown her life away. And just give you a good example. If you go and just google Amy Cooper, you will get at least 100 videos, okay? Of which how she reacted, you will notice that she gets really short of breath, she's gasping for air, she is frantically on the phone. Okay, what that tells you is that she didn't takes five seconds to stop and think, to get control of her body. 

When she went into fight or flight, her heart rate hit at least 145 beats per minute. Now what's that mean? When your body recognizes that your heart rate has jumped to 145 beats per minute, you go into full flow fighter flight, game over, because the blood is gonna go to the arms and legs and lungs. That's why she's so short of breath. her lungs are expanding the blood is that the lungs, the arms, everything. Now think about this. She didn't make any more blood. But her body automatically sent the blood to her arms and legs and lungs. Now Very good question here. Where do you suppose the blood left?

17:40

Where did it leave your brain, your brain, your frontal lobes, actually, the frontal lobes are what you used to think. As soon as she felt herself getting shorter breath, what she should have done was okay, the five seconds isn't gonna work for me right now. Because my blood, I don't have any blood in my frontal lobes, I'm gonna do stupid things. That's why we punch walls. That's why we do all kinds of things. Okay, so what she had done, she should have left the situation turned around and leave, leave. Now what would have been better, take the five seconds, slow down and think. 

And on, then she wouldn't have gone into fight or flight in the first place. But sometimes we do go into fight or flight, when you recognize that that has happened to you get out, get out, it's going to be bad for you. And I will promise you watch the news throughout the day, any day, someone in the world will throw their life away, because they're acting like a cave man or woman. So that's the essence of emotional intelligence. To me, emotional intelligence is understanding the human body and neurology. And if you understand it, you can control it. That's the whole gist of it.

 18:57

Yeah, that's a great point, you know, understanding and controlling, especially when you're in the midst of a conflict situation. And, and actually, as I was reading the introduction to your book, I laughed out loud when I read the part about how difficult it can be to remember something like the seven steps of conflict resolution, you know, while you're in a full blown conflict, and you know, it's all making even more sense now that I'm talking to you. And so I'm wondering about your verbal Jeet, can you tell us, like, you know, what it is and what it entails?

19:30

Yes, yes, let me because it's kind of funny because people who do not and you got to understand I am a towering, five foot six. Okay. I am not a monster size guy. Okay. So when you're my size, and you get beat up a lot, you learn martial arts, and I'll never forget third grade, I would walk over to the library, and I would check out all kinds of books on jujitsu things like this. Now, people think people misunderstand martial arts, okay. Martial Arts is the control of the mind. It is mental, the meditation, the focus, that is the power. And actually, it is a wonderful study at a university of Findlay right here in Ohio. And the study shows that people who study martial arts develop their emotional intelligence much faster than everybody else. martial arts to an American, it typically means you're going to beat somebody up. 

That is not what it's about, actually, in many Asian countries, it's a religion. Okay, so I've studied a lot of martial arts. I am a big fan of Bruce Lee, probably the most amazing martial artists ever. And what I loved about Bruce Lee, is that when he broke his back, he didn't have anything to do. And he just lay there, right. So what he decided to do was take Kung Fu, which understand a lot of the moves in kung fu if you watch somebody in Kung Fu, go through their kados it's ballet. It's beautiful. But Bruce Lee was thinking, when you are in a conflict, you don't dance for somebody. You don't do ballet, you need what he referred to as just kill strikes. So he basically cut a lot of the moves from Kung Fu. Now understand this is blasphemy. This is like somebody here in United States looking at the Bible and saying, these are just way too many chapters here. We don't need to read all these we got, we have four gospels one will do. So we're gonna throw the other three away. 

Okay, so that's pretty revolutionary stuff. So, he called his new form of martial arts, Jeet Khan dough. Now, having said that, I think okay, I want simple. So when I train managers in verbal Jeet, and that comes from Bruce Lee's style. First of all, you get to first base just like you're playing baseball, emotional intelligence, then what do you do? You go to second base, the easy part of resolving a conflict is actually addressing the conflict. The hard part is controlling yourself, because we're not wired for that EP are. So when you combine those two things, emotional intelligence, and EPR. That is what I call verbal Jeet. It is your left and right punch. And if you think of it that way, it's all mental control. 

And it's simple. One of my biggest pet peeves, and it's really took me about 15 years to write this book and boil everything down. Think of it this way. Let's say that I had, I love the seven skills of Highly Effective People from Stephen Covey. Just love them. I think they are one of the best guides for planning your life. But if I sat down with a string of 12 people, and you ever you ever played telephone, where you whisper something to somebody, and they whisper it to the next person, do you replay that? Yeah. Okay, if I whispered the seven skills to the next person here. And let's say your third, do you think they can get them right? to whisper into your ear?

23:26

Oh, definitely not. Usually around the third person it changes.

23:30

Absolutely. But let's say that I sat down to this person. And I said, verbal GTE simple. You see,

23:40

I gotta teach this to clients with five or six employees. My largest client has 50,000 employees. So how do you get a consistent message across even five people? If it isn't stupid, simple, throw it away. It's got to be simple. And when when I see books on the 10 skills of this are the eight skills of leadership, you are wasting your time. It's just like playing telephone. So look, we've got here. If I was gonna say, I want to define your culture, here's your culture. Is it safe? That's it. Is it safe to disagree with somebody? That's what trust is? That's leadership. That's communication. I do. The Ohio safety Congress. We have about

24:30

12,000 attendees to that every year. And I do one of the sessions and I usually get 1000 to 1500 people. Okay. And I tell them, forget everything you ever learned about conflict about resolution about leadership? There's one ultimate rule. Is it safe? And if it isn't safe, there's no trust. Now how do you get to safe, verbal Jeet and let me just throw one other thing in there too. You got to understand the only Only time that you ever build trust to prove that it's safe to disagree with me, is when there's conflict. You say we all know people 30 4050 years, we don't really know, if we can trust them, we don't really know if it's okay to disagree is their ego so big, you can't disagree with them? 

And am I using my EPR skills to treat them with respect, you see, we're missing an opportunity. And this is one of those things that I tell all my clients, if you cannot address and resolve conflict, you cannot be in management. That is why you are there, you might be a great accountant, you might be a great engineer. But when you are supervising people, you have to address and resolve conflict. If not, you will never prove that it's safe. Throw everything else you ever learned about leadership out the window. 

That is your cardinal rule. And if you break that rule, you can't be a supervisor anymore. So verbal, G is first base and second base. And when you do that, you automatically show it is safe to disagree with you. So it all comes full circle. So it's a simple message. And honestly, we make leadership training, we make conflict resolution training way too difficult. And that's why so many of these programs just do not work.

26:26

Yeah, that makes sense. And so I have to ask you, because our listeners are all working remotely, and some have been in the office before and now they're all remote or some have been entirely remote. And so thinking about, you know, people who are now working from home and have a lot of time to themselves outside of, you know, their zoom meetings. How, how does verbal Jeet work? In the virtual environment? You know, is it the same as an on ground? Or are there different considerations?

27:03

Yeah, no, you hit it right on the head. And, and honestly, my clients and it's really interesting, resuming ours, I've got clients in Australia, Sydney, Australia, London, England, and I just picked up one in Germany, okay. Nobody's gonna fly me in to Sydney, Australia, I wish they would. But that isn't gonna happen. I have unlimited minutes on my cell phone every month, literally hours and hours on the phone talking to clients who are all over the country here in the United States. So I've been working virtually for years. And so, okay, I've got a conflict with somebody, what's the first thing you do?

27:50

Relax.

27:51

That's the emotional intelligence. And you will see me whenever I sit down, I was just finished a bunch of coal miners teaching coal miners in eastern Ohio, over by West Virginia, how to resolve conflict. And I have this director's chair that's heightened a little bit. And I say, You know how I get ready to do a conflict. I sit in my chair, sit back on my shoulders, and relax. When I control my heartbreak, keep myself calm, as first base. So then what I do EPR the system starts with empathic listening. So how do you start a conflict? We usually screw that up and understand usually, I'm on the phone. Sometimes I'm on zoom. But I'm on the phone, I'm sitting back and saying, okay, Carol, I understand that this was a problem. Tell me what's happening.

28:46

And then I shut up.

28:49

Now, that's the first thing we start always any conflict with empathic listening. And here's what we usually do. The best of intentions take us right to help screw everything up. Like, let's say, you and I were having a conflict. Stephanie. And I would say, Stephanie, I think this is what you're doing wrong. I think you need to do this. And you know, give you some advice, because

29:10

I'm a helper.

29:11

I'm mister helper, right? So if I can enlighten you, then things will be great. Now think about that. I didn't ask you your side. I didn't ask you your opinion. Is that respectful? Probably not. Yeah, probably not. Because you're a human. And here's here's a revolution. I have a rule. I try not to look stupid as a rule. Okay. How do I know what the facts are? I heard from somebody else was going on. So every conflict, you stop and say, Tell me what's happening. What's going on? That's empathic listening. And I'm gonna give you all those encouragers Okay. No, I see what you're saying. And I'll tell you, I get situations Things that are very complex, the E and the P that's parroting the Eep. Eep. Eep Eep all the time. 

And I'll give you a great example. On Monday, I got a call from a client in Michigan, and they are having an Americans with Disabilities Act and Ada issue. I was on the phone with them for an hour and a half. And they would say, Well tell me what's happening. They would explain something. And I'd say, Okay, let me make sure I got it so far. You're telling me that this and this, and this is what's going on? Is that correct? So you see, that's parroting, I make sure that you and I are having a common understanding that we know what the other one saying we understand each other. parroting is the only way to do that. 

And I'll tell you, it's amazing to me. We do not listen to each other. I've actually been mediating for about 40 years now. I mean, right out of college, I was doing mediations whether internally with my employer or as a paid mediator. And I will tell you one of my tricks. I go into mediations today. And I'll have like the two sides or two people on either side. Here's what I do every single time. I go in, and I say okay, I want someone on my right hand over here to tell me to their satisfaction. Where the people on the left are coming from Tell me where they're coming from. Okay, in 40 years of mediating, Oh, my gosh, I lost track of how many mediations? How many times? Do you think that one side has been able to accurately describe where the other side is coming from? How many you think? Oh, if any at all? You have to be able to count them on your one hand? Yeah, I can. Absolutely. 

Because it's never happened. It's never happened. These people are so busy battling each other. No one's listening. Because if they weren't listening, I wouldn't be there. So we don't move on. This is Stephen Covey. You don't move on in the conversation until you agree. So you see, I'm talking to somebody on zoom. I'm talking to somebody on the phone. I paired it back. If they say, Yeah, you got it. Okay, that ends the E, and it ends the P. Now, here's the tricky part. Well, first of all, let's say Stephanie, you change my mind. You tell me something that I didn't think of. And I say, you know what, you changed my mind. You're right. I agree with you. People don't tend to get upset when you agree with them. They get upset when you disagree. Now, this is really tough. This is your emotional intelligence coming back. If you ever disagree with another human ever, you've got to give them a reward. That's why I put reward in quotes. It's not money. It's not tangible. You've got to protect that other humans self esteem. That's respect. So I would say something like, you know, Stephanie, I see where you're coming from. I understand what you're saying. But what about this? What about this?

And so we can resolve conflict and disagree and show it's okay. I always in class, always talk about politics and religion. And I'll even make a joke. I'll say, like, with my coal miners, last week, I said, you know, why don't we bring in dessert, we'll bring in cake and pie and everything. And we're gonna take a break here in the afternoon. And we're gonna have a good conversation about politics and religion. And we'll, we'll combine politics and religion and have a good discussion about abortion. Oh, yeah, well, they all laugh and everything. But then I go through my EPR. And I hear one of them, tell me what they say. And I say, Okay, I see. I paired it back. And this is very emotional. Okay. And then I say, Okay, I see where you're coming from. And I've got a lot of folks who agree with that. But I disagree. 

Because here's what I think it's okay. We need in today's society to be able to do that. Now, I am not recommending you talk about politics and religion. But here's my point. If you can't sit down and disagree with somebody, control yourself, motional intelligence, use your EPR skills. which combined is verbal G. If you can't talk to somebody about politics and religion, something that's important to you, but it is not going to affect your life at this very second. How could you ever talk to someone about their job, highly emotional, and that will affect that person right now? And I have just described to you that we can't do that because we don't use the right skills. 

And I've just told you why OSHA reports. In a normal year when people are working together. We have over 38,000 physical assaults that occur in American workplaces every week. The human animal is the most dangerous animal on the planet. We have all the mammals on the planet, we are 1024, or there's there's 1024 mammals on the planet. We are seven times more homicidal than any other mammal on the planet. So these skills are important for everything. And when you're going to talk to somebody about your job and you're a leader, if you don't handle it, right, chances are good, you will get a stapler in the head.

35:39

That's really interesting. I don't think I knew the OSHA report about physical workplace violence.

35:47

Yeah, we actually have two murders a day, much more dangerous in our schools. And we're averaging the school shooting every week. During a normal year. Yeah, yeah.

35:59

So um, you have given us lots and lots of pearls. But if, if somebody wanted to start practicing verbal Jeet tomorrow, or even today, right now, what would your first piece of advice before starting number one, slow down and think, slow everything down. And literally, I will hear people just talk really fast and really upsetting us and slow down, okay, cuz I got it, my feeble brain is gonna try to keep up, I'm going to listen, but you're gonna have to slow down. And I, when I talk to somebody, I usually talk pretty fast when I just talk. But when I'm coaching somebody, I slow way down, because I want to slow me down. And I want to slow them down. Because underneath all that, I understand how the human brain works. And why it is so dangerous for me to be sitting in person with somebody coaching them. 

So actually, a dear friend of mine was very good at this. And thought everything was fine, got up to leave, the person pulled out a knife and slashed his leather jacket, open in the back. Thank God he had on a thick leather coat that day. But rule number one, you never turn your back on another human who is upset. So slow down and think. And And And honestly, the reason I wrote solve employee problems first is because half of the book dedicated to emotional intelligence. understanding why we do what we do. And the whole second half of the book is dedicated to EPR. That opens the gateway for it's funny because my next book is coming out in April. And it's called tolerance and diversity for white guys and other human beings. Well, it just expands on that book and shows you how to control bullying in your workplace. But it all starts with verbal Jeet.

37:58

Thank you. I actually look forward to the next book coming out in April. And, you know, I have to say, Scott, thank you so much for everything that you've shared with us today. Are there any last pieces of advice or bits of wisdom you could leave with us today?

38:15

I am frantically trying to get my books out because I will tell you, I am I'm just now I'm 60 years old. I've been doing this for 40 years. I'm just now starting to figure all this stuff out. I'm just now I think kind of getting good at this. But I will tell you when you turn 60 Um, and I could retire now if I wanted to. But honestly, what I see in our world today, deeply disturbs me deeply desert we will not survive as a planet. We won't survive as a planet, we will not survive. When people think that it's okay. It's okay to disagree. It's okay to go to Washington and in protest. 

That's about it is not okay to attack the Capitol. It's not okay to kill police officers. And I don't know if you've seen in the news that we have police officers in Washington, one of them has as already killed himself. And actually I have two other clients of police officers who were contemplating suicide. Our society just the thing about this, I talked about this in the second book, but it ties into the first one. We have an animalistic hang on Hi, mentality. Okay. 

And let me give you an example. If someone disagrees with us, or somebody offends us, is the old Clint Eastwood movie. There's no forgiveness. There's no understanding, we hang them high. It's ruthless. Now think of that type of world. Think of that type of workplace. We all make mistakes. Everybody makes mistakes. And I don't know if anybody has seen there's a Netflix special on the talks about why humans Swear. And it is now shown that people swear when they're in pain, because it actually releases endorphins to kill the pain. It's a natural phenomenon.

40:11

Okay.

40:11

Now let me leave you with one great example. Morgan Wallen, and let me just explain. I am not a country western fan. Nothing against I actually used to be a DJ for a country western station, so I do appreciate it. Morgan Wallen is a young country western star. And he was caught drunk on video using the N word. Okay. Now, the country western music Association banned him from the award show, every single DJ in this country dropped his record, Senator, okay, the man has come out and apologize. He's recognized that and he's actually said I was drunk. And I'm young and inexperienced looking Gaiden, a young black singer, country, Western singer, had one of the best quotes for this, she came out and she said, we cannot persecute and I'm paraphrasing, we can't persecute and bully people who are wrong. He's admitted that he's wrong. We need to forgive. 

We need to use our skills and help him. That is a wonderful sentiment. And that stuff is on the news every day. So my recommendation is don't follow what's happening in today's world because it will ruin you. I hate this hang on Hi, type of attitude towards people. Because all you do is alienate them. Slow down, control your emotions. Use your EPR skills to understand why they did what they did. They apologize. Great. Show them what an evolved human can do. Not some case, man. That's that. That is something I think we all need to ponder and think of these verbal GTE skills when you watch the news, because you'll see this stuff getting violated every minute of every day.

42:03

Yeah, thank you for for that added value. You know, and I would like to pose to all of our listeners, the challenge of just slowing down today and every day and taking that five seconds to really be thoughtful and, you know, look at those around us. And remember that, you know, we read need to care about each other. And this is a great time to start if we aren't already. So So Scott, thank you so much for joining us in support of the Center for the advancement of virtual organizations. We truly appreciate your insight and we know our listeners will benefit from your experience.

42:40

Oh, my pleasure. Thank you so much.

42:42

I love this stuff.